That’s my headline for this developing story out of California:
SEAL BEACH, Calif.—A gunman opened fire Wednesday in a busy hair salon, killing eight people and critically wounding another while leaving bodies scattered throughout the business in a normally sedate Southern California beach community.
The gunman got into a truck and drove away from Salon Meritage after opening fire. Scott Evans Dekraai, 42, was stopped by officers about a half-mile away and surrendered without incident while saying he had multiple weapons with him, police Sgt. Steve Bowles said.
Dekraai was arrested and booked on suspicion of murder, Bowles said.
In all, one man and five women died at the salon, one man and one woman died after being transported to a nearby hospital, and one woman remained in critical condition late Wednesday. Their names have not been released.
Friends of the salon owner said the gunman was the ex-husband of a stylist who worked there. Bowles would only say, “There may be something to the motive as to a relationship with somebody in the salon, that is our assumption.” He declined to elaborate later.
In Huntington Beach, people were shocked to learn that one of the friendliest men in the neighborhood had been arrested for the shootings.
Dekraai’s neighbors described him as a friendly man who invited them over for pool parties at the house he’d lived in for about six years. They said he doted on his son, playing catch with the boy in his yard.
Neighbors said they were aware Dekraai was in a custody battle with his ex-wife over their son, who neighbors said is 7 or 8 years old.
“It was a very difficult battle and he was trying to get more time” with his son, said Jo Cornhall, who lives across the street from Dekraai.
Next-door neighbor Stephanie Malchow, 29, last saw Dekraai on Tuesday morning as she was leaving for work. She was shocked when she saw the photo of the stocky man with thinning hair being detained by Seal Beach police.
“I’m like, no, not this neighbor, no way, he’s the nicest guy ever,” Malchow said.
Dekraai married his current wife two or three years ago in his backyard, said Malchow, who attended the wedding.
“He seemed very happy, he was just so happy he found someone new who loved his son,” she said.
Two former salon employees told The Associated Press the gunman’s ex-wife was a stylist at the salon and that the couple had gone through a bitter divorce.
“They had been having bitter problems for years and I guess he just went in there and started shooting,” said Lydia Sosa, who left Salon Meritage to open her own business but remained close with its owner, Randy Fannin. So did Sosa’s business partner, Tammy Hetzel, who said the couple’s problems were well-known among employees.
There’s not much information about this story yet, so I’ll refrain from saying too much. But do I expect this horrific crime to inspire any introspection on the part of Americans, or any questioning of the role of feminism in poisoning the relationship between men and women? Nope.
Also consider that if the sexes were reversed, if a woman shot her ex-husband and an entire room full of men because she was getting shafted by the family courts and denied custody of her children, her plight would be lamented and her actions excused by the exact same people who are going to be condemning this guy. Expect this horse to be flogged to death and back for the next month or so as proof of systemic “misogyny” in American culture. See how women reacted to the story of the guy whose psycho ex cut off his penis and shredded it in a garbage disposal. I’m counting on Amanda Marcotte, Hugo Schwyzer and the rest of the feminist crowd to not let me down in displaying their gross hypocrisy on this matter.
{ 63 comments… read them below or add one }
What’s really outrageous is that it is HIS son.
From what I read in the article, she had nothing to do with his creation. NONE. “He was so happy to find someone who liked his son” pretty much means she came into HIS family, not any other way.
So why on Earth, how on Earth could she get custody of what isn’t biologically hers?!
@AmStrat
I was thinking the exact same thing, this is horrifying.. It seems like a pure mean spirited play on her part.
The way I understood there are two women.
First? wife:
“said she had known Michelle Dekraai for more than 10 years and was aware that she and her ex-husband were involved in a bitter custody dispute over their son.”
Their son:
“Neighbors said they were aware Dekraai was in a custody battle with his ex-wife over their son, who neighbors said is 7 or 8 years old.”
Second? wife:
“Dekraai married his current wife two or three years ago in his backyard, said Malchow, who attended the wedding.”
Nah, fuck it. I somehow misunderstood her knowing the woman for 10 years as them being married for 10 years.
11:45
Ahh ok, that makes a lot more sense..
“[D]o I expect this horrific crime to inspire any introspection on the part of Americans, or any questioning of the role of feminism in poisoning the relationship between men and women? Nope.”
Maybe not, but enough of this type of offensive action might just start making women and their supporters* think twice, especially if they also become targets. (* Divorce attorneys, child services workers and counselors, family court judges, and other enabling cogs in the feminist legal system)
Self-immolating Thomas Ball may have made a point, but the fact remains that he didn’t strike a blow, even as he advocated it.
The only way this or any offensive action will make a difference is if it starts affecting the judges and lawyers. King John did not sign the magna carta because he was a kindly just ruler, he did it with a sword on the back of his neck while watching a grinning man holding an axe who was busy trying on black hoods. In Mexico entire police forces quit because a few officers go missing. If that started happening then the law becomes meaningless as there is no one to enforce it. This will happen eventually due to bankruptcy so it might not play out as above but either the former or latter is required to solve the problem and some mix is likely – the latter inevitable.
Essentially men need to tell feminism to shut the fuck up, give it a vigorous slap across the face thus reminding it who is the biological superior, then order it back into the kitchen/bedroom. Grunt, oop.
My question is, why are we defending a man that killed 8 innocent people? Regardless of the circumstances, this man open fired on a hair salon at its busiest hour, and then shot a man outside the salon in a truck. (Taken from http://www.contracostatimes.com/california/ci_19102618)
This man is by all accounts guilty.
I understand that custody battles can be fierce, and sometimes they bring out the worst in people, but to commit mass murder is definitely the worst.
I would like to argue that if a woman had done this crime, she would be charged and convicted.
Eight people dead is inexcusable, regardless of your body parts.
@Scott
I think no one argue against the fact this man is guilty of murders and belong to a jail.
FB and others argue that this is a foreseeable outcome given the laws and how they are enforced. If the laws take everything from the people, the people could do everything because has nothing left to lose.
The individuals to react in this way will be mainly frail people, like this example. The nicer man in the neighbor that go berserk to a proximate target.
But, a day, the individual pissed of will not be a small potato, will not be someone gunning down his ex-wife in a burst of rage with a few onlookers or burning himself on the steps of a courthouse. It will be someone like Breivik, the Unabomber or McVeight that will make up his mind and decide to hit at the roots of the problem and not at some random branch or leaves. Will, time and malice can do wonder to the system if properly applied.
Hopefully one of the dead carcess was his wife. The son will be better off without any parents than to have been raised by a single mother who would have gotten her vindictive way. And to Scott, when you mess with a real man’s child, blood will be spilt. Most men will just lay down and be resigned to the state-enforced kidnapping and extortion plot, but some are made of tougher stuff and for you to whine about this dead ex-wife or that is inconsequential and no loss to humanity.
Raymond,
I wasn’t whining about this ‘dead ex-wife’, who by the way did not die in the shooting, she wasn’t even at the salon.
Thanks to Painlord2k for clearing up things up for me, I do agree that a child should not automatically go to a woman, simply because of traditional thought and the idea that women are skilled in ‘mothering’.
My father has been dealing with a vicious custody battle in Canada over my much younger half-siblings, and is encountering the stereotypical thought that men shouldn’t be the sole caregiver, which is usually based solely on biology.
I think there needs to be a re-examination of family law in North America to ensure that parents, both men and women, are not left helplessly at the margins.
My advice, Ferd, is wait until you are 37 before you consider entering a serious relationship…then wait five more years. That would make you 42, at which time you will have seen it all, and not much will shock you. Call it the ‘anti shooting people to death’ maneuver.
I can’t believe some of you. I hate the state-sponsored feminism as much as any of you but what this man did was inexcusable. What he did was no kind of political statement, what he did was kill 8 innocent people who had nothing to do with his problems in the slightest. Imagine if your girlfriend, sister, or mother was working at that salon. Yeah, the system is unjust and I wouldn’t be shedding a tear if men were assassinating the likes of Jessica Valenti, but these people had nothing to do with any of it. As far as I’m concerned, this man is a weak and cowardly piece of dog shit and he can burn in hell. This story really disturbs me.
I deplore it but I believe this is reasonable insanity. And I can sympathize w/ the temporarily insane, we all have before.
He belongs in jail? Hold on a second, let’s not rush to judgment. It’s entirely possible that the incredible continual stress of the ongoing custody battle may have finally unhinged him, causing him to go temporarily inside and resulting in this regrettable murderous rampage. It’s entirely possible he just needs some counseling and psychiatric treatment to deal with his issues, and then after a few months he can return to society as a productive citizen and a good parent.
It worked for Winkler.
*insane
Need. Coffee.
“It worked for Winkler.”
Exactly my thinking and one of several others I had in mind. He snapped. I wish that on nobody.
Since he didn’t even target his ex-wife in the salon, I cannot condone his action. Had he successfully assasinated his ex-wife, I would deem the other victims collatoral damage.
I 100% agree what this guy did was deplorable in killing innocent people. I absolutely believe the author is writing on the foreseeable consequences when you take away hope from people by force. Nobody should agree and everyone should deplore the actions of suicide bombers from Hamas in Israel. But it is a known consequence when you take away peoples livelihood and hope and give them no future to look forward to except brutal oppression and occupation.
Take everything away from a man and leave him nothing left to live for. On a good day, he’ll take his own life. On a bad day, the rest of the world is going with him.
forgot to attach email to follow this thread. +1
“On a good day, he’ll take his own life. On a bad day, the rest of the world is going with him.”
So what type of day was this then? After all, he did a dick-tuck when the cops arrived.
The very cops that likely would have enforced a court ruling that he apparently had a problem with.
Who knows… maybe he had a moment of lucidity and realized he still had a son. Not that it changes anything.
I am half surprised there wasn’t a stand off/shootout with the police. I mean he took it as far as he could to the extreme.
Again not condoning one iota of it. Some people just break worse than others.
This man went to war. He caused much collateral damage and casualties have piled. And the people whose first reaction is to cry “those poor, innocent people” are people who will never change anything. Death is the way of the world. Violence or the implicit threat of it is what causes change. Go ahead, make it clear that you don’t have it in you to destroy life. The enemy will breath a little easier, because you certainly aren’t going to make any changes.
That said, he should have gone after judges and legislators. There’s no justice like a dead “justice”.
It is interesting to see the reactions on this topic – one side is people (myself included) basically saying good for him and noting that the feminists if the sexes were reversed would be organizing marches to free the bitch. The other is horrified that we are looking at this wanton murder with anything less than disgust. Vox day on his blog just pointed out something obvious but did it in a more eloquent way than I could have … what choice does a husband have today? What options other than overt acts of physical violence are there for a man to deal with a shrew ex and corrupt family court system? To those who are horrified and surprised at this one question…. why? Isn’t the real question – “How come this isn’t a lot MORE common?”. And please avoid the “Well… nothing justifies killing blah blah blah” as we’ve all voted, supported, and tolerated governments who kill over parking tickets much less loss of children. And if keeping your children isn’t worthy of killing what is exactly?
“His ex-wife, Michelle, is also reportedly among those who were killed.” Sounds like he got her – but at least she’ll won in court right? Verdict: overruled.
@Remorhaz > that’s the most interesting comment i’ve heard yet. You’re quite right about lack of options (more commonly referred to as no hope).
I’m still of the mind that killing (and numerous innocents to boot) is still ethically wrong. One has to effect change from within the system. No one would agree with the right of Blacks to use mass force to attain the same rights as whites. Martin Luther preached nonviolent protest and with the exception of some flare ups beyond his control, they get the change they needed. This obviously requires men to continue to stand up and challenge the double standard. This guy could have used his story in the media, organized or join in the MRM. Hell even if he chose to go V for Vendetta, he could have threatened to bomb a building with advance warning for people to leave before blowing it up (great attention getter). Granted those are pitiful options but you start with the smallest and work your way up when all recourse fails.
This was a rage snap and it went horribly wrong for all the people who had nothing to do with his ex-wifes bullshit.
And EVEN if you want to say that violence is justifiable (such as the same charge that ‘battered women’ make after shooting in cold blood their hubbies in the head whilst they sleep), it should have been HER and HER alone.
You’d sing a different tune if one of your family was killed due to someone else’s rage.
Women are not worth fighting with or over, it’s a shame this poor guy let the Talking Vagina get the best of him.
Hi Mike, no I will not say that killing is a good thing but I don’t know what else you would expect given the situation. Movies, books, etc. are written idolizing men who kill to protect their families (its one of the main recruitment themes for the armed forces) yet we expect this to simply stop the moment one enters family court. How logical is this?
I also think it is interesting that the horror is reserved for a man who kills but millions of kidnappers and extortioners are routinely given a pass. Outside of the last 80 years if you were to tell almost any human being who lived before now what the family courts do no one you tell would be surprised that it resulted in violence. Rather like kicking a dog every day then being surprised it bit you. Is killing a good thing? No, not even in this case or at least who he killed is not justifiable. I could make a much more solid case for those who write and enforce the laws that would hold water considering America revolted against England for much much less.
Should such be expected? Absolutely and those who express horror I am sorry but appear to me as dumb as the ones who look on surprised that the drug war makes criminal empires and all the horrors of that not only possible but also inevitable. It is the same stupidity at work – just write a law and all problems go away – without any notion of what people actually are rather than what you really really want them to be. The law as written wants men to be wallets and sperm donors until the women want to trade up – then they should be aloof slaves happy to toil away for this same woman (who just took their children) for the rest of their lives. We’ll even justify this with the tired canard of “for the children” and speak glowingly of responsibility even as we take all the rights and enjoyment out of your life. When people don’t simply embrace this they are bad bad bad according to the powers that be and are labeled deadbeats. When they resist they are bad for using violence – the only avenue left for them to use as redress in any form is financially punishable and pointless.
Thus they do everything they can to create murderers then are amazed and horrified that murders happen. How can any sane or intelligent individual feel sorry for such a system and the morons who prop it up or ignore it or the women who eagerly use it to make a buck?
@ Mike in Toronto
I agree with much of what you have to say. I would rather he have done what you advocated. However, Martin Luther King, MLK, was suported by our ruling elite even if it was behind the scenes. He had many Jewish and even some White Gentile supporters. Without these, he would have gotten nowhere. The forces against him were in disarray and had few if any leaders who weren’t shamed or ousted. The media, specifically the news media, was on his side. When there are Black Flash mobs beating and killing Whites here in the USA what does the media do? Pretty much nothing to see here folks is the response or it is the youths who did it. What happens when men go on a murderous rampage because of the misandrist system against them? Right now it looks like you get less honesty about it because the incidents are small and easier to cover up than Black Flash Mobs. President John Fitzgerald Kennedy,JFK, of the USA once said that if you do not let peaceful revolution or necessary change become possible, you make violent revolution or change inevitable. JFK was more or less a behind the scenes supporter of MLK. His Vice President and later after his assassination President Lyndon Baines Johnson, LBJ, was even a bigger supporter of civil rights than JFK. LBJ was known to twist Congressmen’s both Representitives and Senators arms so to speak who were regarded as racists by digging up scandals against them. None of our ruling elite is looking out for the true victims of racism and sexism in our society. Let me ask you a question. Who will protect or look out for the true victims of racism or sexism now in our day and age?
These are rather predictable results. All you have to do is look at history.
Before No-Fault Divorce, back in the 60′s and 70′s, the amounts of spousal murders were nearly equal between the sexes. I don’t remember the exact numbers anymore, but they were both pretty close – in the USA about 1600 murders a year of husband and wives each, by their spouses, or something in that vicinity.
After No-Fault Divorce, when women were given all kinds of options and financial handouts in order to leave their husbands (rather than be forced to murder them as an easier option), the ratio dropped to something like 700 murders a year by wives, while husbands to this day still murder around 1600 of their wives each year – virtually unchanged.
The difference is that women have been given an alternative to murder to get rid of their spouse, and without much risk… while men, on the other hand, still have as much to lose as ever, and thus, the murder rate of wives by their husbands has not changed much.
The only thing I can think is this was entirely senseless. He doesn’t give a shit about his son. His son is probably going to change his name and pretend this pos is dead. When men stop acting out with impotent rage and address issues with the people who cause them instead of who ever is around they might see something change. Laws don’t force anything on you. If you choose to marry and/or have childern nobody forced it on you. I have know people who got divorced and had custody issues and most of them handle it like responsible sane adults with and without the court needing to give any orders.
@Scott
North America doesn’t have laws; last time I checked.
It’s fun to speculate what would happen if a woman went on a shooting rampage but it doesn’t happen because woman aren’t taught to handle their disagreements with violence.
By N.Amer I meant Canada and America and by none I meant they don’t have collective laws except where there citizens marry or procreate with each other. They have different systems with different and maybe some similar issues but you’re statment is too general.
I’ll assume the anon post above was a troll as no one could be as terminally stupid or at least I hope not. Laws don’t force anything on you? Laws use force first and foremost and initiation of force is the very definition of law. You are forced to have a drivers licence or ID card now, you are forced to have a social security or taxpayer ID number, you are forced to file taxes, you are forced to go to school when you are a certain age, and you are forced to pay alimony, child support, etc. Law is always forcing you to do something or forcing you to refrain from doing something. A 10 year old should know this. The rest of your post simply builds on the stupidity so as such is not worth addressing.
And before you continue with the “nobody forces you to get married” realize that he was likely FORCED to get a divorce whether he wanted it or not. Then he was FORCED by LAW to have some arrangement over custody. None of this was voluntary and claiming that its his fault because he chose to get married makes about as much sense as me claiming that you deserve to be shot because you didn’t work hard enough in school many years before so as to not be able to afford to live in a much nicer neighborhood.
Gandi and MLK got what they were after via non-violent means, but they were dealing with people of conscience, people who would think about the issues they espoused and not just kill them. Non-violence only works when your opponent has moral character.
In this case, that won’t work. Women are good at lying about personal relationships, the rationalization hamster runs roughshod over any internal moral objections. Non-violence only has a chance before a relationship exists.
I submit that women, being at least as selfish and self-interested as men (generally more so), are much more likely to pay attention when they’re being threatened. If it becomes obvious that claiming child abuse during divorce, withholding visitation and other such actions could result in their death, then they might think twice about such behavior.
# 33 remorhaz – “I’ll assume the anon post above was a troll as no one could be as terminally stupid or at least I hope not.”
“Terminally stupid” – Absolutely classic! LAUGHING MY ASS OFF.
Remorhaz,
It’s quite possible the anon in question is a female which might explain the “terminally stupid” phenomena. Actually, upon reading HER post again, i’m 99% certain this is the case.
Anon – “When men stop acting out with impotent rage and address issues with the people who cause them instead of who ever is around they might see something change.”
“Impotent rage”, she says. Actually, it’s a set of fully loaded testicles with proven accuracy via training that allows men to perform acts such as these. Right or wrong.
Speaking of right or wrong. I would expect many more instances such as these as time goes on. Right or wrong.
You missed an important detail:
“Scott De Kraai’s neighbors told the station that he moved into his Huntington Beach home with his son several years ago, but that he was upset about having joint custody of the child. “I know there was a custody battle,” neighbor Jo Cornhall told KTLA.”
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/10/13/justice/california-shooting/index.html
So the guy already had joint custody of his son and it seems the boy lived at his fathers house… Seems like an important piece of information as this disproves your theory of the ex wife denying this man his child (not to mention that you’d think if he loved his son so much maybe he wouldn’t shoot 8 people in broad daylight effectively making sure he’d be locked up for a looong time and never see his son again, yeah, sounds like somone who really cares about the well being of his son!)
Seriously, how can you defend someone who is obviously a complete pscho? Even if he was ‘pushed too far by an unjust system’ or some shit… A normal person when pushed might yell or punch a wall maybe even punch another person then go and try to resolve the situation in a more productive manner… That’s all fine and dandy. But it takes a completely different breed to pick up a gun and start shooting at random people, random INNOCENT people. This is not at all justifiable.
I think that we can all agree that there is a scale of injustice that would result in varying levels of, say, violence. Seeing a misandrist tv show and losing it would mean the guy reacting is nuts. Good riddance to him from the movement. It’s response would be boycott, letter writing and the like.
Move up the scale to unfair dismissal because of vindictive feminist. Letter writing? No point, no effect. Resignation? Not anymore. Legal action? Yes, via detailed compiling of facts and perseverence.
Then we get to the type of injustice this article speaks of. Is murder appropriate? Absolutely not, unless in self defence, which some may argue happened here since the man’s seed is being jeapordized. But ideally, concentrated political pressure is required, along with major support for these men from the MRM.
Our current progressive/feminist class has no desire or interest in reversing the tide of misandry. They need the female vote too badly. So I can only say to other MRAs: until our movement gains real clout and traction, hang in there.
The Mens Rights Movement has survived even through constant attack and must remain focussed here. To not allow the feminist/progressive camp to define this instance in relation to our demands, but instead stay on message that this was expected, considering the state of men’s rights today.
Murder is inexcusable, except in self-defense, which opens up a new debate: does threatening a man’s seed constitute an attack on his person?
I stand by my opinion that this was reprehensible irregardless of how badly he was treated. One wrong does not justify an even greater wrong.
Anyone who is defending his rage homicides as a defacto means of instilling a political solution to a problem is fitting the defining definition of terrorism, which was simply a replacing of the word ‘war’ with ‘terroristm’ of Clausewitz theory of war:
“war is the continuation of politics by other means.”
The ends in this case do not justify the means in this case. Whatever your personal feelings on the matter, using violence, fear and the deprivation of a persons right to live to achieve political ends, ESPECIALLY when 9/10ths of the victims are innocent bystanders, is on the same level as accepting that Bin Laden’s grievances with the US, real or imagined justified what happened on 9/11, and continuing that thought, that 9/11, a group of stateless actors, justified two wars that have taken up to 100 times the amount of innocents as the originating act. (i view both 9/11 and illegal invasion of Iraq in the same manner of criminality and ends not justifying means)
There could be a point made that if the violence where directed towards the judiciary or law enforcement, a point could be made that violence to escape oppression is justified (this requires a very large stretch), but that doesn’t apply in this case whatsoever.
This guy lost it plain and simple. He isn’t to be revered or sainted as a hero in any way shape or form. Actions like his inevitably hurt the cause the rest of you and myself included work so hard to promote. Defending him shoots what you stand for right in the foot.
As a person who’s heading towards a divorce (i am a victim of the Eat Pray Love syndrome) i have a stake in this game as well. I am one of the luckier ones as my ex is not a raging bitch and we are being somewhat amicable. And i kept my shit wrapped up tight so no children where dragged into this fiasco. If the law hasn’t caught up to the times for men’s rights yet, it’s time for men to enforce it unilaterally and preemptively. I intend to get a vasectomy shortly, as it is the only sure way for me to assert MY reproductive rights. I would make a call for all men to rub one out and freeze it, get a vasectomy and get a lawyer to right up a contract to enforce ownership and property rights over their own seed which will grant them rights enforceable in a court in the same way that a biological father has rights that supersede those of a surrogate mother.
It’s time to start thinking outside the box rather than devolve into animals.
The bonus of the vasectomy is you are not obligated to tell anyone you’ve had it done, so you now have the same ‘liberation’ and ‘empowerment’ that women have. And the role now reverses where they must get your permission to have a child, sign over legal rights to you to use YOUR genetic material (of course they still would maintain the right to abort, but this would surely cut down on unwanted pregs), cannot lie to steal your seed and enslave you into a life of servitude, cannot pretend the pill failed, cannot magically become pregnant and claim you are the father, etc…
I’m almost tempted to turn this into a crusade. Imagine how many problems would disappear if MEN SIMPLY TOOK CHARGE OF THEIR OWN REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS as women have cheerfully celebrated since the start of the sexual revolution. Seriously am i the only one seeing this?
Either that or start pumping money into a birth control pill for men.
Just as prenuptial are despised by women as being unromantic (but spending 3 months salary on rock, insane amounts of money on a one day reception and honeymoon destination that puts you in the debt hole for years and no ‘lemon’ policy on the spouse is somehow a fairytale) men are discovering more and more that prenups are simply a necessary legal contract to put before the primary marriage contract, a series of stipulations if you will.
So too must the creation of children now become a contract in leu of no legal remedies provided to the man and all rights to the woman. Men should simply start using legal red tape to combat feminist hysteria and who cares how many harpies and golddiggers cry foul, they’ll reap everything they sowed.
Anon – please spare me your legal rhetoric. “Joint” custody does not mean “physical” custody and you can google both terms for clarification. “Joint” means every other weekend at best and only if the ex feels like it. Everyone should know this by now. Again I don’t think violence is the answer but what other avenue did the current system leave him? None. Period. Then you are surprised?
This guy was likely looking at *never* seeing his children again no not ever and we make movies where the hero slays 1,000 to prevent to the accolades of a million … you are surprised… sorry but the hole in your story is a little bigger. Actually it is pointless to debate this as for starters you are probably just a troll and if you are not, so terminally stupid as to be beyond hope. This problem *will* solve itself when enough fathers have nothing to lose. A bad economy makes for a lot of those doesn’t it? I also don’t see many family court rulings in places where Islam has shown that overt acts of insane physical violence are just the cure for the court system believing it is GOD and modern wimpy man bowing before the all omnipotent state. Personally I don’t see the benefit of the state driving the country towards Sharia but hey it will solve the issue either way.
@AmStrat
His current wife had nothing to do with the creation of his son, but his ex-wife, with whom he was engaged in the custody battle, DID have something to do with the creation of their son.
“Dekraai and Fournier [the ex-wife] were married in Clark County, Nevada, early in 2003 and he filed for divorce in Los Angeles County in 2007″
And lookie that, HE was the one who initiated the divorce.
“Fournier and Dekraai had an 8-year-old son, Dominic.”
@Remorhaz,
“Under the shared custody agreement, Dekraai had the boy each week from Thursday through the weekend, and the mother had him Monday through Wednesday, [Dekraai's] attorney said.”
So, yeah, a little better than every other weekend at best. Also, Dekraai was the one seeking sole custody of their son, so SHE was the one looking at *never* seeing her child again no not ever.
So, no, the shooting rampage wasn’t over his being denied or having extremely limited access to their son, it was over his not being able to deny the child’s mother access to their son.
Hey all,
Wanted to point out something you might be interested in. Turns out absolutely NONE of you guys are MRAs! I had no idea, personally. Here’s the post that opened my eyes to the truth (from a site you might be familiar with…)
http://manboobz.com/2011/10/14/mens-rights-redditor-on-seal-beach-shooter-he-is-one-of-us/comment-page-2/#comment-70270
Just wanted to share my newfound knowledge with y’all.
If you’re going to report something, why not get it right? He had PRIMARY custody, but that wasn’t enough for this loon. He wanted FULL CONTROL.
So any men trying to build a case on this guy, are probably just as crazy as he is. PTSD my eye. He was just a sore loser. The guy featured in this news clip also claimed PTSD.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYEizzLsdXg
This is not PTSD – the reality of of family court is it’s been open season on women and children for decades. The so-called feminist angle just doesn’t exist. It’s a myth touted by angry dads without full control…most of whom just complain about child support who seldom want to discus Who seldom want to discuss relationships with their children, preferring instead to bash the mother for taking *their* money. What a crock. These aren’t real men. It’s not even close.
Some of you people are very sick, as a father who is going through a divorce I can understand anger at the system, but the idea that I would go into a place and gun down random people is insane.
I believe Kalifornia should allow concealed carry, those customers should have had the ability to fight back and put this piece of waste in the ground.
What kind of sickos would even try to defend this garbage?
As a NRA member, I cringe when anything like this happens, I dont want any association with these pieces of shit.
As a father going through a divorce, I have nothing in common with a mass murderer.
And yet some of you want that connection, sick sick sick.
My daughter works at a restaurant on the same block, I panicked when she didnt answer her phone, but she went home early due to illness and was sleeping.
I cant even think about was could have happened, it puts everything into perspective about what is really important in life.
The article you linked, Ferd, described him as having 56% custody of his son and that he wanted final decision making authority with regards to his son. How can it be justified that he have final decision making authority unless it is shown that he ex wife was seriously unfit as a parent? No such evidence has been brought forward. The article puts forward no evidence that the shooter is a victim of institutionalized misandry.
This Daily Mail article has a local man saying that he had lost custody of his son in the hearing the day before the murder, as well as his ex-wife being granted a restraining order against him:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2048470/Seal-Beach-shooting-8-killed-Scott-Dekraai-targets-ex-wife-Orange-county-hair-salon.html
Yet this article states that the results of the court hearing were that the near equal custody be retained:
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-1014-seal-beach-gunman-20111014,0,2813337.story?page=1&track=rss
This Wikipedia entry states the same:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Seal_Beach_shooting
No hard evidence at all that the man’s treatment at the hands of the family court were anything but fair and equitable, at least not in the article you linked. If anybody can prove otherwise, link the story hear and I’ll retract my statement.
Actually, just in the interests of being completely accurate, he was paying his ex-wife about 1200 bucks a month in child support despite him being the primary carer of their son. He was attempting to have her pay him child support, while she attempted to force him to pay her legal fees (not sure if she was successful in that endeavor). So such a ruling is a misandrist one, but its not misandrist in the way its being framed on this blog, as him being barred from his son’s life.
This whole article makes me sick! Almost as sick as the incident itself! Outrageous! There is absolutely NO REAL EXCUSE YOU CAN GIVE, THOUGH I SEE YOU TRIED SEVERAL, THAT MAKES IT EVEN SOMEWHAT OKAY OR EXPECTED, THAT THIS COWARD WOULD DO SUCH A THING! Sorry, none of these have justified this outcome moron.
YES, DIVORCE SUCKS! CUSTODY BATTLES THAT DRAG ON & ON & ON MAKES YOU FEEL CRAZY! BUT FEELING CRAZY, & ACTING CRAZY IS WHERE THE LINE NEEDS TO BE DRAWN!
The fact that you don’t quite see this “line” makes me question YOU, THE WRITER, AND YOUR MENTAL STATE OF MIND!
BTW, EVER HEAR OF A CHICK NAMED BETTY BRODERICK? It’s an Orange Co. Case too, if I recall correctly, probably twenty years or more ago… just one woman among several I’m sure, who, like this COWARD, thought she could just “shoot her ex and the kid(s) are all her’s” GET SOME FACTS BEFORE SPOUTING OFF YOUR SICK MINDED,TWISTED CRAP!
Anyone who accepts “collateral damage” is a frightened little asshole, furiously jerking themselves over imagining that they have the guts to do what this idiot did. Murder of innocents is never acceptable, and a real man doesn’t lose his shit and start firing into a crowd of innocent people. Temporary insanity is a bullshit excuse made up by the same lawyers you all claim to hate – it’s something for pussies who want to weasel out of paying for the crimes they committed.
The law did not force this man’s hand. Neither did his wife. He chose this course of action, and now he has to live – and hopefully die – with the consequences. I want limp-wristed faggots like him and you losers supporting him out of our gene pool ASAP, by any means necessary.
No doubt,sadly. Im on twitter as anti__feminist
i follow any / all mras. Cya on twitter
When I responded above,i didnt see that this article had 51 comments.i responded to the original author.so,to make my view on this clear,
fuck the female collateral damage.
you folks love your “heroes” overseas who kill TRULY innocent women and kids daily :)
once again,im anti__ feminist on twitter
fighting the good fight daily against fem scum like
marcotte and roseanne barr.cya!
This article has me seeing red, what twisted FKS think this Ahole is a hero!
Anyone who sees anything other than a mental deviant in this fecal matter has a serious mental condition and should be behind bars or at the very least in therapy, but jail would be safer for society.
My wish is ,for you fks that glorify this asshole, to have a father in law like myself.
If I had a daughter and felt that she was being abused or threatened by anyone, I would sacrifice my freedom to make sure that bastard takes a much deserved dirt nap.
And yes, I have been divorced, allimony, shared custody, mental games with children in the middle, been there done that.
My son is currently seperating with the mother of his 2 kids, even without a marriage it is still painful and complicated.
But my son is a man, not a deviant retard, he wont go killing strangers because he wants to get even with his ex.
When I got divorced, nobody even thought about mass shootings, and if anyone had an exuse it was me, USMC III MAV, Quang Tri 1968.
When I came home there was no such thing as PTSD, you just drank it away, I didnt start sleeping normally,until well into my second marriage around 1978 or 79.
Men handle their problems with backbone and strength, mamas boys find a way out by blaming everyone else but themselves, and chicken shits provide cover.
MIchelle Dekraai had four children with three men… Scott was the father of her youngest… she was a prime candidate for male and system/legal abuse…
Wait… I’ve been corrected… 4 children with 4 men…
The system abuses children, alright.. by removing their fathers from their lives, on the whims of their mothers alone.
Makes sense though that someone who’s profiting from the family court system would have an interest in denying that anti-male bias exists there.
Obviously, most of you, other than maybe SCOTT & a few others, don’t know what the hell your talking about and are looking to incite more anger to what is already so loaded subject….
Whatever motions think ANYONE MAKES MONEY FROM FAMILY COURT (other than judges, lawyers and maybe court ordered therapist) have obviously never been a part of this ducked up system because no matter how much money you may getfrom the
Ex, it NEVER COMES CLOSE TO THE MONEY THAT GOES INTO THE BULL SHIT THAT OF FAMILY COURT, BUT NO MATTER HOW BAD IT GETS MURDER IS NEVER THE ANSWER, BECAUSE THAT ALWAYS MEANS THE CHILDREN LOSE, PERIOD!!!
(this is a continuation if the post I started above, I hit post too soon)
GODS BLESS THE KIDS ALWAYS
Interesting how Remorhaz blew hot and heavy for a while, then slunk away without a word after additional facts came out. We now know under what circumstance eight murders earns a “good for him” from Remorhaz instead of a tail tuck retreat from the “terminally stupid” commenters he couldn’t stand toe to toe with.
Great. A 7 year old boy will now be without a mother (dead) and without a father (prison). He will go into the state system, tossed around from one foster family to another, where he is more likely to experience neglect and abuse.
Brilliant move Scott Evans Dekraai. I’d say you really, really care about your son.
Sad display – Sorry I have a life outside of commenting. His ex was forcing him to pay for her legal fees and continuing to pound on him in the divorce court and the guy snapped. People do snap under such stress. I haven’t checked this is a while which is not slinking away it is just living. I don’t think his target was correct but your argument seems to be that because he didn’t get shafted as much as the average guy he should have bent over and taken it. I disagree with this logic. I don’t think he was correct to go on a murderous rampage but I am not going to pretend to be horrified either as such is to be expected with the system we have. That good enough for you or will I need to check this every other week to not be slinking away?
I can’t disagree with the possibility of temporary insanity
Feminism has given women a “battered woman syndrome”. The gift of legal defence and a de facto legal right to kill. Women can suffer depression from systematic abuse leading to murder.
Men and women are equal.
Therefore men can suffer depression from systematic abuse leading to murder.
Let’s call it “alienated father syndrome” for now?
And the fact that he had custody, doesn’t mean he wasn’t abused by the system. At the very least, he had to have had enough money to fork out for HIS and HER lawyer, which is unjust.
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