A bunch of people criticized me for publishing Obsidian’s piece “The Plight of the Marginal White Male” on Thursday. I admit that when I first read it over at his blog, I thought it had way more race-baiting, girlish gossiping and finger-pointing then I liked, especially since I was one of the bloggers he sniped at in the original piece. Nonetheless, I ran his post anyway because of the spirit of dissent that In Mala Fide is all about and because I believed its strengths outweighed its faults.
While Obsidian’s slams on me, G.L. Piggy, Foseti et al. are unjustified, the Marginal White Male is indeed real. If you’re a non-rich, white, heterosexual man living in America or any other Western country, you are marginalized by default. You’re marginalized by the media, you’re marginalized by the government, you’re marginalized by the universities, and you’re marginalized by your employers. You’re blamed for every problem the world has ever known, crushed under the yoke of an ideology designed to bleed you dry and work you to the bone while denying you your dignity as a human being. And the younger you are, the more marginalized you are.
And the architects of your marginalization are not, as you love to think, the ghetto-dwellers, the welfare queens, or the public workers. They’re your own fellow whites, the ones who have more money than you, more power than you, and view you as nothing more than mules to bear the load and weather the whip. Timothy Geithner. Ben Bernanke. Maria Cantwell. Nancy Pelosi. George Gascón. Jack Layton. Stephen Harper. Joe Biden. David Cameron. John Boehner. Sarah Palin. Albert Lord. George W. Bush. Andrew Cuomo. Brian Moynihan. Lloyd Blankfein. All of them as white as you, many of them men like you, all of them dedicated to tearing you down and putting you in an early grave to enrich themselves or because their atavistic ideologies demand it. And all of them hate your fucking guts.
I don’t share Obsidian’s fatalism about the permanence of the present paradigm. The Age of the White Man’s Marginalization is no more sustainable than Jim Crow, La Grande Noirceur, or the Iron Curtain. We’re already seeing cracks in the dam, as white men either opt out of the system or actively try to destroy it. Insulting and degrading the people you need to keep your world afloat is never a smart idea, and the liberal-capitalist-multiculturalist-feminist monster has burned more karma in a half-century of lies and disenfranchisement than it could ever repay.
Look upon the Marginal White Male, and he’ll show you the life of the mind. But you won’t like what you see…
Unrelated, but I would be remiss to not mention that the second In Mala Fide satellite blog, The Antagonist, is now online. Helmed by Antagonist and Masaryk, you can find it here.
{ 100 comments… read them below or add one }
It’s not so much a problem of varying opinions as it is a problem of quality control. Personally, I’m open to virtually any idea, including ideas that may oppose this website’s core ideologies, if the author can at least present his case intelligently. Quality writing is also obviously a must.
While Maximus’ latest piece was certainly out there, you can’t fault him for lack of diligence. He presented his case as well as anybody probably could have, and amidst the controversy, he at least leaves you with something to consider. To digest. Obsidian’s screed on the other hand read like the half-baked ramblings of a half-baked mind. Poorly researched, poorly reasoned, and poorly written. Not up to this website’s standards, in any way.
Huh, what an interesting synchronicity. I actually just finally got around to watching Barton Fink last week, and now here you are mentioning it. When the big guy said “They call me a madman, but I’m not mad at anyone. Honest.” I remembered that you had used that line somewhere ;)
Squared:
As I mentioned on Obsidian’s post, I’ve emailed him telling him to simmer down. If he tries to do here what he pulled at the Spearhead, I’m cutting him loose.
Xamuel:
I’ve thought about doing an analysis of all the Coen brothers’ films including Barton Fink, but I don’t think I have the attention span to post on three decades worth of movies.
It’s not our own fellow whites, it’s the rich, most of whom may be white, but many of whom are black or other races. It’s not really their race that matters, but their money and power. Many of them are men, too, but many also are women.
And they are not my fellow whites. They are not my fellow men. They are not my fellows, period.
I enjoy reading Obsidian’s posts. You should also post articles by feminists and mulitculturalists of all manner.
After a time, one knows the MRM in and out. We spend alot of time educating newbies, and not enough time calculating the response of our opposition.
Obsidian is very typical of the black male – what makes him unusual is that he blogs and that he sees fit to use proper English. White men profit by seeing how minorities think about us. Many whites still believe in equality, to their detriment.
MRM “theory” is quite complete. There is not much one can add to it that has not been written already. What is lacking is a synthesis with white nationalism. Welmer at the spearhead is very reluctant to push the race issue. Alot of MRMs do not believe in race, or do not believe that it matters.
“Too much capitalism does not mean too many capitalists, but too few.”
Screw Libya. Start knocking off the world’s richest first. Start with Carlos Slim (he very much deserves it) and work your way down the Fortune 500, maybe skipping the ones that haven’t been quite as adroit about destroying America. At about the time you get to Bill Gates you’ll start to see a re-organizing of priorities among the upper classes.
The death/fragmentation of mass media is still the best thing that could have happened to mitigate the destructive ruling ideologies and classes.
What if the white male is not marginal, but rather, no longer exceptional?
And until they do, anti-feminism will accomplish very little.
Race may matter, but not for the reasons you might think.
I don’t know anything about human biodiversity (HBD), but I can guess. Just as women on average are shorter than men, and have a bell curve that clusters toward the middle, and just as Ashkenazi Jews have higher average IQ scores than your average white person, it may be true that members of one race have a different average intelligence, and even a different bell curve shape, than members of another race. We evolved, and there’s no reason to think that distribution of intelligence, height, strength, or any other characteristic for any arbitrary group need be equal.
And sure, you can say things about any arbitrary group. You can say most men are more likely to get into a car accident (because they drive more often than women), but that doesn’t mean that I personally am more likely to get into a car accident. I’m an awesome fucking driver. You can say women tend to be hypergamous, and almost every single one of them is, but there will be exceptions, unique individuals. What I’m saying is we are all individuals. You might be able to statistically represent differences in various races and sexes, but it really shouldn’t matter. We are individuals who will succeed or not succeed in a free market system based on our own merit.
But we are not in a free market system, because people keep mucking it up. It’s our nature. So when I say that race may matter, it is only because people insist on it. They insist that they are not individuals, that they are part of a group, and that that group’s needs outweigh the needs of other groups. Whites with plenty of money and power and white nationalists are both guilty of this to varying degrees. Whites with plenty of money and power don’t care about all whites – no, they care about other whites with money and power, people who are “like them”. White nationalists also care about people who are “like them”. And being “like them” can really mean anything. Race, sex, job, interests, whatever. We naturally want to promote other people like us because we tend to want to perpetuate people who are like us – it’s just another form of human competition.
So the only reason race matters is that people make it matter.
I know next to nothing about HBD, but I’m guessing some have suggested we could put together IQ tests for voting. I have thought about this in the past. After all, allowing everyone to vote certainly hasn’t worked out very well. But it wouldn’t work, because, just as we have already seen with the biasing of IQ tests toward women, the people in power and in control of the IQ test will make sure that the results end up in favor of whomever they please. If IQ tests for voting were implemented, they would, over time, favor those already in power more and more, perpetuating inequity of opportunity.
I’d prefer to let each individual fend for themselves and succeed based on merit. And not only on merit of themselves, but on their families, because that’s really how it is. If you are born to a well-off family, your opportunities vastly outnumber someone born poor without a father. Survival of the fittest means not only the fittest DNA, but the fittest upbringing, the fittest family knowledge passed down to the next generation, which really is an indication of just how fit your DNA is. Affirmative action is a futile attempt to fight against survival of the fittest through discrimination, to interfere with success based on merit.
Humanity evolved in a competitive environment, and so we compete. It will always be thus unless we change the very nature of humanity. The fittest will always have a better chance of surviving – and the fittest are not the nicest people, they are not the best people, they are just the people who are able to succeed. And the fittest will have no qualms about ensuring that people like them remain the fittest, by implementing policies that favor themselves and people like them. Who’s to say they aren’t the fittest, then, if they are the ones who succeed at doing so?
This talk about race is interesting, but I am an individual, so is my fiancee, so will my child be if I ever have one. I think we’ll all be pretty damn exceptional, regardless of our race. We have to remember, though, that most people will help others who are “like them”. It’s human nature, but I don’t think there’s anything intrinsically “good” about it.
Over time, the human race will not become “better”, because being “good” is not the criteria for being successful: the criteria for success is putting yourself, and people like you, above others. We are a competitive race, and unless you change our nature, we always will be.
There are solutions to the problem of “fellow” exploiters, however they are a bit harsh.
—-
http://dissention.wordpress.com/2011/03/02/an-often-ignored-aspect-of-class-warfare/
That’s not a solution, it’s a temporary salve. Someone else will become the new exploitative rich shortly thereafter. It’s human nature.
The solution would be to change human nature. Now that’s a hefty challenge.
You’re right – that must explain why Africa is a hellhole and Finland and the Netherlands are great (well, until Arabs showed up).
And until they do, anti-feminism will accomplish very little.
Dead wrong.
A lot of WN types seem to have no problem with white women oppressing white men, getting them jailed under feminist laws, etc.
They just oppose a white woman having sex with a colored guy. Their ‘opposition to feminism’ is limited to this and this alone, and accounts for no concept of judicial misandry, Marxism cloaked in feminism, etc.
A black man has more in common with a white man, than a white woman does.
It is the recognition that I am not a fleck of dust, alone, floating in the void of space. I belong to a race that has a history and a future, that my life is more than the efforts of one man. That it is not the case today, nor has it ever been the case, that I rise or fall alone.
I am interested in men and women who are white and know it. Whites who have a sense of group identity, a similar world view on life and history. Whites who agree on a vision for the future and have learned from the past. Social experiments have been performed and we can predict results very accurately.
My concern is not so much women. Women will fall into line and the contradictions of feminism are becoming obvious to all. A PUA would say the men lead and the women follow. It is men who must be repaired. The spirit, the will that conquered North and South America, Australia, and Africa must be harnessed. This urge to expand, to dominate our environment, to explore was unique to our race. We went as far as the moon, and have not returned since.
Biologists have no issue speaking on the races of sunfish living at different depths in the lake, or races of dogs, or subspecies of beetles. The liberal mindset then comes into play and human races are not discussed, in public at least. But the machinary is there.
It gives us a very elegant tool for discussing such issues as race. Male golden retrievers have more in common with male poodles than female golden retreivers. There is a male dog solidarity. All dogs are equal. We must enter poodles into dog races to increase diversity because there are too many greyhounds. In this light, our current human fictions on race are laughable.
I never said there may not be differences related race. I just said it doesn’t matter. Successful people will be successful. Why does it matter to you whether your race is better than another? If it is, then your race will tend to be more successful whether you band together in the name of white nationalism or not. Fighting against racist affirmative action policies is a good idea, sure, because they are outright discrimination. If you want to help your own race, feel free, but it seems like a large waste of time to me, and counter-productive to fighting for the rights of all men.
The Fifth Horseman
That’s a wild, unprovable claim. Beyond hearsay even.
If YOU are a black man, YOU should oppose white men having sex with black women. Or Hispanic men having sex with black women, etc.
Completely invalid – and here’s proof: I HAVE more in common with Thomas Sowell than I do with Jesse Jackson.
I have more in common with Ann Coulter than I do you.
You better tighten up and rewire your arguments; they’re pretty pathetic.
So it’s a reason to live. But why the white race and not the human race? Because you believe they tend to be superior on some level? Well, Ashkenazi Jews tend to be superior in intelligence, so why would they want anything to do with some random guy who just happens to have a pale skin tone? Might as well fend for themselves, right?
Why does it even matter who’s superior? You want to promote a race that will make humanity better someday? Well, that’s not going to happen. Look at what (mostly white) people in power have done to the United States. Look at where we’re heading.
I’d say your race, Caucasian or just human, has failed pretty miserably, and will continue to do so forever unless human nature changes. However, you are expressing that very flaw in human nature in attempting to promote people like you over others, at their expense. THAT nature is why your race will never become an enlightened race, be it the white race or the human race.
So if you think you’re enlightened and that white nationalism is the key to creating a better world, I’d say you’ve been proven dead wrong by history and by your own selfish actions, no?
That’s just wishful thinking, not grounded in reality but whimsical hope, a desire to have meaning in life. Don’t worry, everyone’s guilty of it. Some believe in the Christian god, some believe in other gods, some believe in white nationalism, apparently.
White nationalism may be a way for you to try to encourage the success of people like you at the expense of people who are different, but it doesn’t sound like a noble goal to me. It’s no more noble than what the people in power have done to trample on the lower classes. And it’s because they think like you do.
There are very few people who have truly learned from the past. You’re not one of them, and not all of those who have are white either.
It’s so much simpler and honest to say “I think my race is better, and I want to promote it at the expense of other races.” Don’t pretty it up. And if you really think that’s not what you’re doing, you’re in need of some serious self-analysis.
I don’t know enough about this topic to say whether that’s true or somewhat true. There may be other factors than just DNA. Regardless, what do you gain by white nationalism that you wouldn’t merely by going out and expanding, dominating, and exploring yourself? Put an end to affirmative action. You don’t have to call yourself a white nationalist to do that. If whites are superior, they’ll be the ones expanding out into space for the most part, won’t they? Support an environment where it’s okay to talk about racial and sexual biological differences. But if you choose to label yourself a white nationalist, realize that not only do your intentions appear anything but pure, but you are harming your ability to “make things better”, if that’s really what you’re trying to do. Fight against affirmative action not because it hurts whites but because it harms humanity’s ability to achieve by hampering some of the best minds with discrimination. You shouldn’t be saying the white race is better, you should be saying the human race can be better. I disagree that we can be better, but I’m wrong sometimes. Go out and prove me wrong.
I agree that successful people are successful people, independent of race. But that’s not sufficient in describing the fate of nations – especially when unfettered immigration dominates public discourse here (for Mexicans) and in Europe (for Arab Muslims).
Your race idealism negates that different groups will tend towards average behavior and thus one can expect nations comprised of certain ethnic groups, say Ethiopians vs. Fins, to diverge significantly in terms of national vigor, quality of life, crime, etc.
@ TFH:
Netherlands, Finland, Sweden – now why are all those decidedly liberal states doing fine until a certain immigrant group showed up? Feminism sucks, but it’s not the basis of leftism and the problems caused by it.
Netherlands, Finland, Sweden – now why are all those decidedly liberal states doing fine until a certain immigrant group showed up?
Nope – they are racking up debt to maintain the illusion of past prosperity. Sort of like spending on credit cards to appear prosperous today. They would be in trouble even without having brought in immigrants. Look at Japan – no immigrants but still an aging society with no economic growth.
At any rate, feminism is the scourge here. A black man cannot jail a white man under VAWA, false rape charges, etc. But a woman can jail an innocent man very easily.
So you essentially think feminism is not harming the US economy nearly as much as black people (who were here well before feminism) are?
Firepower,
If YOU are a black man, YOU should oppose white men having sex with black women. Or Hispanic men having sex with black women, etc.
Nope. I am not offended by this at all. The fact that you demand I be offended by something is lame.
Oh, and Hispanic is not a race, any more than ‘Anglophone’ is a race. For someone who opposes leftism, you sure get brainwashed by it easily.
Are Jamaicans and Canadians the same race because the speak English? Are you aware that Hispanics are white, black, mestizo, and all mixtures?
I have more in common with Ann Coulter than I do you.
I did not know you were female..
say Ethiopians vs. Fins, to diverge significantly in terms of national vigor, quality of life, crime, etc.
Yes, that is true. But that theory does not work in your favor as well as you may think :
History of world GDP, from the Economist.
Sort of inconvenient for some people to see China and India having been most of the world economy for most of human existence.
Rather, the West should study why India/China declined so much from 1820 to 1970, so as to avoid the same catastrophe. Hint : it was not due to immigration of other groups.
Feminism sucks, but it’s not the basis of leftism and the problems caused by it.
Actually, feminism is the strongest pillar of leftism.
So strong, in fact, that it is the only type of leftism that most Republicans strongly support. A pillar of leftism so strong that BOTH political parties enthusiastically support it, is thus the very core of leftism.
Firstly, I would like to praise The Fifth Horseman for taking a rationalist edge to the cognitive dissonance and unexamined biases of the White Nationalist element present here at “In Mala Fide”. It is very rare that we who are skeptical of their claims and aims find someone who can oppose them with such clarity and objectivity. Kudos and thanks.
Now…
I previously posted this question in “The Other 800 Pound Gorilla in the Room…” article, but it seems my comment was too late to illicit popular response.
I’m now taking the time to post it here:
“Being that I am a 20-something, non-criminal, educated, socially and civicly active, economically contributive American male who just happens to be black, what would you have done to, for, with or against me in order to better restructure the. U.S. to your traditionalist or ethnonationalist ideals?”
I think one of the major failings that the vast Left and racialist Right both share is the formation of ideology without consideration of real world logistics — both socio-political and resource.
Assuming that you somehow actualize your desired policy changes from middling internet blogs to national and world stage, you must realize that they will affect millions of real people and have dire consequences.
Please take this into consideration before you choose to answer.
The origin of race IS geography. The different human races, as a layman would enumerate them, originate from allopatric or sympatric speciation.
Also, there is the ongoing question of what constitutes a species. This depends upon what your specialty in biology actually is. There are phylogenetic, taxonomical, and biological definitions. But be assured, subspecies or “race” is a very well-defined concept. It is only in humans that refering to race is forbidden. Even biology has been poisoned by multiculturalists.
I don’t need to look at the color of a person’s skin. Give me the complete germ and somatic cell line DNAs. There are unique bioinformatic signatures like lactose intolerance, sickle-cell anemia, excessive disulfide bonding in hair, alcohol dehydrogenase, and haplotype that will reveal the subspecies.
@ TFH:
That’s your argument – one link that shows the United States increasing steadily corresponding to the exact time period of decline in India and China?
No links and it’s risible that you reduce the entirety of Europe down to feminism when the population shift has been so dramatic (wonder if Arabs take advantage of the welfare state) as well as trivial stuff like wars, globalism, and the Euro, but nations aren’t just about money. Crime, social bonds, community connections, patriotism, shared culture and tradition, oh yea crime, general pathology, a healthy and self-edifying (for the majority demographic) popular culture, family, traditionalist values, and crime all matter just as much.
But who cares about a healthy, stable, and productive society anyway (something only Asians and Whites have shown themselves capable of producing) – might as well move to a patriarchy like Saudi Arabia.
(Female) Shaming language. Why don’t you just outright accuse him of having a vagina?
Do I really have to argue this point? Seriously? Oh fine – blacks were sort of, ummm, let’s say “restrained” prior to the 1960′s.
You do great arguing against feminism, but you’re short-sighted when it comes to race. And I’d say, due to personal reasons, that’s on purpose.
My comment is awaiting moderation? WTF.
[It happens. Don't ask me why. - Ferdinand]
Marginalized White Male my ass. White men are the best in the world and the whole world knows it. Political correctness has taken over the west so white males (you know… the ones who are running shit) have to play the game but we still know were the shit and we built the fucking civilized world. Let me ask you this. If you took a poll of all those “Marginialized White Males” how many of them would choose to be a different race? None.
NO white man has anything to feel sorry about or feel like a victim. Stand the fuck up. White is right.
I will not sacrifice the wholeness and cohesiveness of a society of millions of people merely to include a few geniuses from an outgroup.
In talking about race, we are talking about populations, of millions of people over hundreds of years. Individual considerations are irrelevent. This is why we talk about “average” IQ, “average” moral values, “average” behavior. It is a larger world-view.
In this way, one man of genius will not atone for billions of non-achievers.
Ryu: “Alot of MRMs do not believe in race, or do not believe that it matters.”
OneSTDV: “And until they do, anti-feminism will accomplish very little.”
And that’s what I think is exactly wrong. Anti-feminism can’t be tied to some ideology, especially an explicitly racial one. I really don’t care if black men sleep with or rawdog white women. The girl is no more or less of a slut and no more or less undesirable than she’d be for the same act with a white man. I wouldn’t care if my kids were half-black rather than all-white — as long as a paternity test confirmed that they’re mine.
Just as it is ridiculous to debate whether a white lesbian “womyn” is more or less oppressed than a black gay man, it’s pointless to argue whether white men are more discriminated against now than black men. Black men have it tough as men too. Much of the aid or affirmative action available to black people goes to black women, not black men.
I believe the preponderance of mainstream, peer-reviewed science that roundly rejects HBD’s claim that different races and ethnicities have different genetic bell curves, e.g. different mean intelligences. Real biological difference between the sexes exist beyond any doubt however.
Let us look at civically active blacks. This is only a sample, but with a little more research the pattern is very clear.
Kayne West and Pump Daddy are both civically active and philantropic. BUT. To what ethnic group are their efforts directed?
Pump Daddy: Hip Hop Action Network. Young Urban Entrepreneurs.
Kayne West: Doctors Without Borders. New Look Foundation. One Campaign.
The pattern is, that any ethnic group, but whites, help their own race. Blacks help blacks. Mexicans for Mexico. White for everyone. Don’t just take people at their word.
Oh god. LOLzzz.
OneSTDV is the mirror image of Maximus. Both are a distraction from real problems and actually improving oneself. Both are trying to peddle some grand scheme to explain everything.
OneSTDV (and other cookie-cutter paleo cultural reactionaries) believe the root problem isn’t really feminism, it’s some all-encompassing perfidious conspiracy of cultural leftism, and sees feminism as just some manifestation of “cultural marxism” on the same level as another one of his pet right-left issues like atheism or environmentalism. Until everyone votes for a bunch of right-wing candidates that make the tea party look liberal, he doesn’t think anything will change, ignoring how ingrained feminism and white woman worshipping is on the right.
Maximus (and other conspiracy theorists) think it’s not really feminism that’s the problem, it goes back to the Rothschilds and a bunch of satan-worshipping international bankers who created the Fed in the 1910s who are running this grand conspiracy. Feminism can only be seen as some secret weapon the Satanic Banker Cabal developed to weaken hard-working Christian family men. They think until we restore the gold standard and look at the Constitution literally nothing can be done about feminism or misandry.
And then David Icke would say, no that’s not the real problem. The real problem is the elite are actually secret satanic reptiles….
Ryu wrote:
The origin of race IS geography. The different human races, as a layman would enumerate them, originate from allopatric or sympatric speciation.
You have no clue of what you’re writing about. The different human races aren’t even close to being separate species, sympatric or otherwise. Before you write me off as a fuzzy-thinking, PC multiculturalist, let me just say that yes, race is a useful concept and yes, there are important physical, mental, and temperamental differences between them.
Ah, “white-nationalism”, as Ferd once put it himself not too long ago: “Multiculturalism along the lines of melanin.”
There ain’t no “white nationalism”. White guys one hundred years ago weren’t kicking it up it up in various sunny African and Asian hellholes because they were competing with the Congolese and Indonesians. The dick swinging contest was to show who had the biggest white dick: The French, the Germans or the English.
There ain’t no black nationalism either. The Belgians come in with superior power and the Tutsis go up to them and say “We’ll be your boys if you let us keep the Hutus down.”
Race /= tribal affiliation. Everyone knows this. Koreans and Japanese are probably the genetically closest, yet they fucking despise each other.
Mestizo Mexicans beat the crap out of Mestizo Salvadoreans and Nicaraguans that sneak into their country.
White Nationalists live in a happy la-la land where the content of character is solely based on the color of skin, never mind the fact that most of human history hasn’t been about races fighting each other, it’s been about those fuckers the next hill over who look a lot like us and worship the same God, but speak their barbaric language and eat cheese.
Ferdinand,
My main beef with Obsidian is his tone and, as you say, his fatalism. His whole argument is “damn, you white boys should really do something about getting pussy and learning game…but, oh snap, you can’t because you don’t have the ability…sucks to be you.”
On one hand we have someone like Roissy who offers a site that teaches men how to fish rather than Obsidian’s tactic of handing men a pole that has already been snapped in half.
Hell, I’m willing to venture that even in deep Jim Crow South, if you asked any good ‘ole boy who he trusted more, the blacks on the other side of the tracks, or that Yankee New Deal carpetbagger, he’d pick the blacks. He wouldn’t want them next door, much less dating his daughter or voting, but he knew them and understood them better than some white guy from Boston.
Chuck:
And after he hands us the pole -that’s been snapped in half- he says it is our fault for that we haven’t caught any fish because if only we’d have used his pole…
Oh, SNAP!
OneSTDV,
And I’d say, due to personal reasons, that’s on purpose.
So this is the first time you have ever spoken with me, and you can assume this much? This too after dodging at least 4 of my points. Lame..
OK, let me make this blunt, as I have to go out after this :
OneSTDV, answer the following two questions honestly. Your answers will tell us quite a bit about you.
Q1 :
Which do you find more troubling?
a) That innocent men are being jailed by false rape charges, and for non-payment of alimony inflicted on them on a no-fault basis, OR
b) That white inter-breeding with non-whites is slowly rising
Q2 :
Who do you blame more for the white birth rate being lower than you want it to be?
a) Feminists (who are almost uniformly white)
b) African American men
Answer these two simple questions.
Great post.
Man, I think this might hurt. But it just has to be done.
I dodged 4 of your points after quoting several times from your posts!?! I respond directly to what you say and I’m “dodging” you. Then you respond with a baseless charge that I’m “dodging” you and move the goalposts immediately. Ha. Did you randomly pick that one out of your hat of comebacks?
I’m almost 100% certain that your aversion to racial consciousness is personally motivated. (Am I wrong?) And given one particular anecdote I’m pretty sure I recall you bragging about, you’re a sociopath with an irrational, venom-spewing hatred of white women (perhaps worse than any other individual in this sphere).
Q1: (a) is obviously worse as I really don’t even think interracial marriage is that big a deal given its extremely low rates, but you present a very specific question where the two choices aren’t really even related.
Q2: the white birth is only “too low” due to Hispanic fecundity and capitulation, via culture, economics, and politics, to minority groups. So your question basically makes no sense.
And if we want to blame liberalism on something, I’d wager it’s mostly explained as an attempt to norm black pathology:
http://onestdv.blogspot.com/2011/02/liberalism-as-excuse-for-black.html
So answer me a question: is a patriarchy sufficient or merely necessary for a stable nation? And if sufficient, I presume that you believe a stable nation can formed by patriarchal blacks, Hispanics, and Arabs. Yes?
So would you argue that killing off all black people and no white people is better for society than killing off the bottom 90% of all human beings regardless of race?
If it’s really about IQ then race is secondary. So you might start calling yourself a “Mensa Rights Activist”.
but whites?
Affirmative action was supported because it helped white women, not because it helped blacks.
You think whites in power ended slavery because they *cared*? Haha.
Gorilla, the real “problem” is human nature. We are what we are. All of what the human race does can be explained by how we evolved. I’m not even a student of evolutionary psychology, other than the little I’ve ready about in the manosphere, but this much is clear to me.
What exactly are “white nationalists” trying to accomplish?
What is the point?
I guess they want white men to band together against everyone else and protect white women.
Why?
What have white men in power done for me?
It seems to me “white nationalists” are just pawns of the elite, and not very effective ones.
Honestly it is possible that average IQ and other characteristics vary by race, but I still haven’t seen any conclusive argument for why the white race is going to lead us into a beautiful future.
It’s not.
So what the hell is your point?
Blacks can’t form a stable nation?
Central Ethiopia from ~500 until the 1930s.
Semites can’t form a stable nation?
Egyptians weren’t black, but those pyramid builders weren’t white either.
Hispanics can’t form a stable nation?
I didn’t know Spain was now a non-white country, and hell, they’ve had more tumult over the last 100 years or so than, say, Costa Rica. Why? Not because Spain ain’t white, but because Spain is a bunch of different white folks who speak Castilian, Catalan or Euskadi forced to hang together under one flag.
And stability ain’t everything. Belarus is pretty damn stable, but given a choice where would the average white person prefer to live: in a dacha outside Lukashenko’s lovely all-white Minsk or in a beach house in mulatto/mestizo Belize?
I fully expect you to move the goal posts, or run off and post a rejoiner on your blog where you delete anyone who argues against you and you can wallow in your factual ignorance and self-perceived intellectual superiority. IQ scores matter for shit when you can’t fucking get facts right or have an Aspie conception of how humans operate.
Yeah, I’m being harsh here, but goddamn, I hate when people make points based on utterly factually wrong principles. I’m not an HBD denialist BTW, I just hate people building models based on overlooking vast swathes of recorded human history. You want people to take you seriously? Then don’t make arguments you can debunk if you cracked open a history book.
The amusing part is I posted against Obsidian & pals recently and now against White Nationalists. Each group focuses on race to no end. I’ve already explained why this is the case, and gotten zero response, apparently since nobody wants to *think* about it.
I’m engaged to a high quality black woman. I am a high quality white man. If I chose to have a child, he would probably be smarter than any white nationalist in existence. Haha. However, I won’t be having any children, because the human race is not one I wish to perpetuate. Its ignorance and allowance for evil disgusts me.
I won’t think less of my woman because she happens to be black. She is 1 in 10,000, at the very least, and yes, that means most black women out there could never compare, nor could most white women. The racial retardedness on both sides is sub-human.
My sentiments would be exactly the same if I had never met her. I have always been against affirmative action, which is discrimination. I believe it’s quite likely there are IQ differences between races, and even distributions may be different, though some of this may have to do with environmental toxins. That’s all well and good.
Please show me how this “white nationalism” crap is going to improve *anything*. Please.
I propose a “white nationlist’s” motto: I *want* to believe.
No better than any miserable leftist.
Good stuff, Spike Gnomes.
I would ask when have whites formed a stable nation either?
I hope “white nationalists” don’t think what we have now is a “stable nation” lol.
I’m not a student of history, but you seem to be. Has there ever been a “stable nation”? Does the concept even have a meaning? Every civilization comes crashing down at some point, no? Is that not human nature?
Spike Gomes, I mean.
@ Spike Gomes:
Take a look at these instead of trying to tell me Ethiopia was some great civilization. Oh god, that’s funny. (Spaniards are white.)
http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab357/onestdv/topcountries.jpg
Those are the 30 top countries in the world as defined by Newsweek – not exactly HBD central. Now tell me, notice a pattern?
You’re right, I should have looked over my list of “Black Inventors” before opining.
Out of the 47 million hispanics in the USA, a full 75% identify as ‘white hispanics’. (ie., Charlie Sheen, Racquel Welch) Therefore, the USA is 75% caucasian.
Human Stupidity has discussion about racial differences, especially in IQ
http://human-stupidity.com/irrationality/stupid-dogma/racial-differences-intelligence
A sensible “race realist” is http://jewamongyou.wordpress.com/
One Stupid ‘Tarded Dumbass Voidroid:
Did you read my post? I said ~500 A.D. to 1930s when Italy steamrolled them (after failing the first time around 30 years earlier). Them dumb blacks in Ethiopia were building massive stone churches in Lalibela and writing biblical commentaries in Ge’ez back when much of Northern Europe were still waving their dicks at trees sacred to Wodin.
Do you think civilization started up around the same time newsmagazines started rating economic development? If you said “Black nations can’t build Fortune 500 companies like Goldman Sachs.” or “Black nations score lower on standardized tests.” then you’d have an argument. But you said NAMs can’t build civilizations, which is just fucktarded on it’s face.
You fail reading comprehension.
You also fail writing comprehension, as you stated “Hispanics” before, which is a linguistic category and partial cultural one and not an ethnic one, unless you somehow think you can group Argentines, Guatemalans and Dominicans under one racial and cultural rubric. They all speak Spanish and were once colonized by Spanish Catholics. Even ones ethnically close often don’t like each other. Mexicans and Centros frex.
And did I mention black inventors?
No, you brought that shit up yourself, which speaks more towards your idiocy and obsessions than anything else. I *said* I wasn’t an HBD denialist. I fully admit to believing in race differences. What I stringently don’t believe in is crappy factually incorrect, ineffectually argued, intellectually dishonest arguments like what you vomit copiously. You do the subject more harm than any good by coming across as mealy-mouthed mind-blind weirdo Aspie who says blatantly off the wall bullshit.
Sounds a lot like what a white nationalist would say about whites, except this statement about patriarchy is true.
Oh yes, feminism is a much greater threat than racial differences.
http://www.the-spearhead.com/2009/12/21/patriarchy-works/
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Jay Hammers:
I’m not going to debate the concept of national stability. Obviously some places are more unstable than others. What are more interesting questions are “What constitutes instability?” “What are triggers for instability?” “What makes a nation anyhow?”
Let me compare and contrast some examples. We have Egypt on one hand. Roughly the same borders and overall population makeup for several thousand years, despite repeated invasions and occupations lasting hundreds of years. Two major religious/cultural shifts. Several linguistic shifts. Despite currently being an Arabic speaking Muslim nation, the inhabitants proudly look back to its Kemetic past and feel a sense of lineage to it, despite being completely divorced from it in every single way that matters.
Now let’s look at the Holy Roman Empire. It lasted over one thousand years in various incarnations. It was unified in it’s faith and leadership, if not language or cultural group, enough to have people fight and die for the Holy Roman Emperor. It has its great monuments and cultural achievements, and let’s not forget how much Vienna alone contributed to the Western Canon of the arts and sciences. Yet starting in the early 1800s the glue started to come loose. Despite still being Catholic, the various nationalities composing the empire felt that they were more German, or more Hungarian or more Czech than subjects of the Empire. It tottered along for another 100 years till the stiff wind of WWI made it topple over and shatter, without anyone ever really looking back and saying “Man, wouldn’t it be cool if we were all one big Empire under the Holy Roman throne again?”
Finally lets go to China, an ancient nation, much like Egypt. Like Egypt it’s been invaded and occupied for hundreds of years at a time. Heck, it’s even been broken into pieces multiple times. The various parts of the country speak essentially different languages, Cantonese is further from Mandarin than French is from Romanian for example! (Yes I am aware that the written language is transferrable, but remember most of the population was illiterate for most of the history of China). Despite all this instability and linguistic and even phenotypical differences, Chinese people think of themselves as Chinese and have an almost burning desire to reunite the nation when history rends it asunder.
What does it all mean?
No clue. Not sure anyone has. But it’s a hell of a lot more complicated than ‘tards like OneSTDV make it out to be.
Spike Gomes:
You mention Ethiopia up through the 1930s building temples and making Biblical commentary.
Societies which were largely pushed forth by whites *invented skyscrapers*. They did the temple thing too. Ethiopians made commentary and wrote some things. Whites pushed forth writing as an artform, creating the novel proper. They did the advanced commentary thing as well.
And you wrote:
And why would you venture that? I think you’ve been living overseas too long.
I’m not arguing that Ethiopia is just as able to build skyscrapers today. They aren’t. They won’t be unless some sort of gene therapy for IQ and social factors come into play (which I have my doubts of happening in this lifetime).
I was responding to One’s assertion that NAMs can’t build civilizations. Whatever you think of Ethiopia now, it difficult to argue that:
1. It wasn’t a civilization. Civilization isn’t just now. It was also the past as well.
2. It had monuments and cultural achievements that were great for its time, surpassing much of Northern Europe, though not Southern Europe or the Levant.
3. For a backward nation they were an extremely hard nut to crack, which bespeaks cultural and organizational strength even as tech level was low.
4. Given how selection works, most likely for a time they probably had more human capital than Northern Europe (vis a vis the development of Ashkenazi IQ versus other Jewish subgroups, it moves quickly, I tend to discount “Northern Winter IQ theories.” Inuit aren’t the highest testing of American Natives, and Southern Chinese outscore Northern.) Who knows, maybe if exposed to the national and religious pressure cooker that Europe became or developing a bureaucratic testing system, they would have kept up better? Race and IQ ain’t platonic forms, ya know; selection happened, and is happening. 3000 years ago you’re building pyramids while someone else is waving their dick at a tree. Now you have to import the descendants of the dick wavers to run your country’s industry because your country’s people couldn’t organize a blowjob at an orgy. Who knows what the future holds?
Note, is anyone even noticing that I said I’m NOT A HBD DENIALIST. Lord, you don’t have to be a denialist to realize that the tropes swapped by most HBD bloggers are fucked up.
And I’d venture that by reading factual and fictional accounts from the South at the time. No, not just written by blacks. Whites mostly. Pick yourself up some Flannery O’Connor to read a nice complicated commentary on the racial and class mores of the time. Yeah, them good ‘ole boys thought blacks were inferior to them and ought to be kept separate, but they didn’t hate them like they did uppity Yankees.
Oh, and I’ve been back for awhile.
Also, Chuck don’t get me wrong. I respect you. My beef isn’t with HBD. I’m a believer. My bile is solely aimed at One’s intellectual dishonesty, dirty arguing methods and most importantly his huge factual errors.
Let me put it this way, wouldn’t you want your arguments to burn off the dross of bullshit that hangs all over it? Then you have to refine them accordingly. This isn’t some axiomatic system. Like most of the human sciences it’s messy and imprecise because history and humans are messy and imprecise. You have to work from those principles rather than taking up a tone of “White skin GOOOOOD, Brown skin BAAAAAAAAAD.”
TFH:
How many men do you know who have been jailed under VAWA and false rape claim? I know more people who have been jumped, robbed, and killed by blacks than I know men who have been unfairly imprisoned under those statutes.
And if you want to get down to it, the end result for any of us who don’t pay taxes to support any of a number of socialist-tinged causes which seek to prop up either women or minorities is that we’ll all end up in jail. How many people go to jail for tax evasion every year ?
I’m just speaking for myself here when I say this. I feel no tension when moving through the world of white men and white women (being white helps). Annoyances stemming from female privilege do occur. But dealing with blacks? It’s much worse and the impact is more mentally and emotionally stifling and destructive than any encounter with a woman (of course, I am no married and have never been divorced nor do I have kids) You can’t say this, you can’t say that. Don’t look at them wrong, they might get the wrong idea and either take offense or get their boys rounded up to try to fight you. Definitely don’t speak your mind about their behavior or their stupidity (having nothing to do with them being black; just, you can’t criticize them at all). Turn a blind eye to every negative thing that they do. Ingratiate yourself to them because if you don’t then you are racist or whatever. I don’t feel that I have to bend over backwards to get along with women, by and large, but I feel that way with black people. And that may be a tiny little perturbance, but its one that I face throughout the day. It builds and festers because you can’t do much to fix the problem besides come online and talk about it with a few other people.
I don’t think that black people feel that way around me or many other white people. Blacks can do and say whatever they want. If they’re in the wrong they’ll assuredly be excused via some fucked up social mechanism which either overly celebrates them being correct or tepidly corrects them when they are in the wrong. A black person can clown on a white person or behave obstinately to them at work. Can a white person do that too?
You’re Indian so you may not understand. Perhaps feminism does impact you more than it impacts me relative to dealings with black people.
Chuck,
Maybe you are forced to deal with black people daily.
But many, perhaps most white people could simply choose to avoid blacks and have little to no interaction with them, if they really wanted to. Move to the ‘burbs and work in an office job and presto – no contact with blacks.
Look at the situation Welmer is in with his custody battle. Look at VAWA, false rape, etc. There is no easy way to avoid those.. To be separated from one’s children – that would be unthinkable.
I know more people who have been jumped, robbed, and killed by blacks
killed?
But many, perhaps most white people could simply choose to avoid blacks and have little to no interaction with them, if they really wanted to. Move to the ‘burbs and work in an office job and presto – no contact with blacks.
Do you live in America? I work in a city that is >80% white and work with about 40% black, who commute to work because the area they live in is economically dysfunctional. Suburban businesses are legally required to hire blacks you realize?
Most will willingly go above and beyond the mandated quota.
It’s a fucked up view of the world if you think most or even many white people simply have the power to pick up and move on a whim. No, most white people are essentially stuck where they are without breaking all bonds and economically crippling themselves.
The reality of the plight of most white people is this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness
That goes for both Feminism and black pathology. It’s the new ‘normal’. You’re also dead wrong on Feminism being the central pillar of leftism (not that I agree that minority worship is that pillar either). When Feminists don’t have the guts to criticize 18+ black men for raping an 11 year old girl then you know they aren’t exactly running the show. When journalists try to victim blame that slutty 11 year old, then retract saying there wasn’t enough balance (apparently rapists and victims should share in the guilt?) you know there is a lot more going on than simply Feminism.
@Spike Gnome,
I could write a lot about Ethiopia, but I’ll just leave off on saying you are using a bad example.
Really there isn’t a good example, because when anyone uses the word civilization as a positive attribute they are obviously speaking colloquially. No one talking about the desire to rettain civilization would be satisfied with the accomplishments of Mesopotamians in 3,000BC, despite technically possessing a civilization.
You or Jay Hammers also sort of sank your own boat in mentioning Belarus as well, considering that historical Ethiopian civilization was a lot more authoritarian than anything that has ever happened in any Soviet country. So if people would rather live in Belize than in Belarus, they’d probably live just about anywhere over any period in Ethiopian history. That is unless they were in tight with the Negus.
Jay Hammers wrote:
Affirmative action was supported because it helped white women, not because it helped blacks.
You think whites in power endaed slavery because they *cared*? Haha.
Probably not. And OneSTDV should google “Missing White Woman Syndrome” while he’s at it. It’s not so much that white racism doesn’t exist, it’s just taken on some bizarre contours in this day and age.
Spike Gomes
Note, is anyone even noticing that I said I’m NOT A HBD DENIALIST. Lord, you don’t have to be a denialist to realize that the tropes swapped by most HBD bloggers are fucked up.
Spike, just be sure you always mention that in every post you write.
;-)
Otherwise any HBD “realist” you debate might be tempted to burn a straw man in effigy instead of writing a thought-out rebuttal.
No, it’s because she’s intelligent and white,
and you’re a typical childish groid playing some typical, stupid Kat Williams doin’ dem dozens comedy routine.
No wonder you can’t become professors without Affirmative Discrimination.
It’s because he’s been taught it’s permissible to be a Black Racist. White racists are shamed while Black Racists get to put a “Rev.” before their name and get a cable news show to spew more of their PC dogma to an even wider, gullible audience of SWPLs just itching to flagellate themselves… for failing to have a Civil War to free dem darkies…
try this test: put an announcement on the internet calling for white males between the ages 18 to 35 to meet together regularly with the intention of forming ‘community defense teams’.
The opposition to this from all quarters would be proof you need that there is definitely an established force working against white street justice.
Hmm….. Jay Hammers you are quite an interesting case. I can’t help but wonder how your wife feels about you being such an unapologetic race realist. Is she a conservative? Did you meet her at work or school? This really interests me please do tell. I know a conservative guy that also is married to a black woman and she is very conservative.
TFH:
“Maybe you are forced to deal with black people daily.”
Unfortunately, yes.
“killed?”
Yes. The father of one of my classmates who grew up around the corner from me was shot point blank range in the face with a shotgun by a group of 4 blacks who robbed him while he worked his night shift job at a convenience store. He was in the Air Force by day and had three kids.
That 1 murdered person is more than the number of men I know who have been put in prison for anything feminist or related – which is to say that I don’t know any man who has been charged under VAWA or falsely charged with rape. Shitty charges when they happen, don’t get me wrong. But how prevalent are they?
I’ve been jumped by a group of black guys. My brother too. Another high school friend had his apartment invaded by 3 blacks; one held a gun to his girlfriend’s head. Luckily my high school friend had a shotgun and blasted one in the chest.
“Look at the situation Welmer is in with his custody battle. Look at VAWA, false rape, etc. There is no easy way to avoid those”
Actually, there is. MGTOW have discovered a solution which is similar to the one you suggested for people who are forced to deal with blacks. Problem is, you can choose whom you enter an intimate relationship with, but you can’t choose who sits next to you on the subway or talks shit to you while you’re walking down the street.
K(yle):
It seems that blacks suffer more from learned helplessness than most groups. Thus their high religiousity. Their black churches which treat pastors as God himself. The “ointment” and “green cloth” commercials on late-night BET. Their love of the lottery.
They feel powerless in so many realms that the feeling escapes via obstination aimed at whites. These types of feelings can’t be repressed forever.
Never has a race still “felt so powerless”
after being given more TRILLIONS of dollars in WIC, Welfare, ADC, Bridge Cards, quota jobs and oceans of blood from 650,000 Civil War dead.
Chuck wrote:
Actually, there is. MGTOW have discovered a solution which is similar to the one you suggested for people who are forced to deal with blacks. Problem is, you can choose whom you enter an intimate relationship with, but you can’t choose who sits next to you on the subway or talks shit to you while you’re walking down the street.
Nonsense, I see white liberal types practice the racial version of MGTOW all the time. They make noises about supporting blacks and affirmative action and then go home to their mostly white suburban neighborhoods. I’m ok with that BTW; I think people should congregate with who they’re most comfortable with.
The incidence of violent crime in the US has taken a sharp downturn since the 1990s. I’m not discounting the incidence of black-on-white crime, but don’t tell me there’s no way to avoid it.
An MGTOW man can avoid marriage, but still often has to work in environments that favor women at his expense. He can change careers, but that’s a lot more difficult than simply moving.
That 1 murdered person is more than the number of men I know who have been put in prison for anything feminist or related
Really. I know plenty of men who have been through the family court meat grinder, including someone who was served a 25 year sentence for spousal rape.He was just released last year. And a relationship gone sour with a woman either at work or at home can have life-altering consequences for a man.
That’s the same as saying you’re “OK, man” with Price or Roissy expouding about women, then going home to submit to a feminist, harpie wife who wears the pants.
No wonder you’re so good at personal hypocrisy: you admire it in others.
Well, of course. YOUR personal exception makes the rule.
Goddamn, you really are stupid.
What I see here is that OneSTDV’s arguments are clear, concise, and easily confirmed by anyone with honest observation skills. You look around you and clearly see he is right. These idiots trying to argue with him, however, write these lengthy essays stuffed full of mental gymnastics, obscure examples (ethiopia as a model civilization?! rotflmao), self-congratulatory scientific language, and attempts to confuse the issue behind a bunch of dribble that doesn’t mean shit when you actually parse through it all. Another interesting thing is how each of the people fighting OSTDV are doing it for purely selfish reasons – they are either NAM’s or married to leftist feminist black women who refuse to have kids. LOL. They can’t let go of their selfish biases long enough to let the truth shine through. Pathetic.
OneSTDV pwned your asses.
Cosign Begby
Most pro-white arguments ARE clear; facts ARE on our side.
While Affirmative Discriminationists use weepy, emotion-filled blabber (like their Sister Feminists) as substitute for fact, hoping the weepy, ignorant masses will join their side because it “just feels good.”
Firepower wrote:
That’s the same as saying you’re “OK, man” with Price or Roissy expouding about women, then going home to submit to a feminist, harpie wife who wears the pants in the family
Well, where do you live FP? In Detroit? Are you telling me that whites have no recourse in this country if they don’t want to live near blacks? Yes or no?
No wonder you’re so good at personal hypocrisy: you admire it in others.
And what hypocrisy would that be? My position is a simple one – I don’t discount racial issues but believe gender issues should take precedence over them.
Begby:
You dumbass. I’d tell you you’re begging the question, but you’re probably one of those people who thinks “begging the question” means “bringing up a question to be asked.” No, you’re not right because One told ‘ya so.
His arguments are clear and concise because they are far oversimplified models used as axiomatic hammers to pound rhetorical nails. Intelligent Design is also clear, explanatory and concise and yet is bullshit based on several unsound principles. If you want a peek of what HBD is really like on a brass tacks level, go read some GNXP or Greg Cochran’s academic articles. Get back to me when you can discuss Cavalli-Sforza without drooling on your bib.
Gotta love how when forced with actual arguments against their stupid “just-so-stories” the supposedly intellectually superior White Nationalists retreat to “This is all just scientific jibber-jabber and wordplay to hide what’s in front of your eyes!” That’s like saying “You’ve seen rain before, falling from the sky! How can you doubt it’s not Thor pissing into a sieve? Doesn’t that make more sense than water suddenly turning invisible, rising up and then turning into water again and falling down?”
Again, I reiterate I’M NOT AN HBD DENIALIST. I don’t think you’re going to be able to turn modern day Ethiopia into Japan, or even India even if you built a Harvard in every city there and money was dumped daily on the Ogaden plain for the taking. I chose Ethiopia because One the Idiot said “NAMs can’t build civilizations, when clearly they did in the past. I picked one that briefly surpassed any in Northern Europe at a time, then stagnated for centuries. I could have easily picked one from another current shithole like the Khmer Empire or the Harrapans.
My main points:
1. IQ and group human talent isn’t some platonic ideal. For much of recorded history, what are now backwards places had far more capital and talent than many of the places on top of the heap now. This is due to selection, which was at play and is still at play. Now I’m not talking some Lamarckian line here, but it seems civilizations once they reach a certain level seem to sit on their laurels and stagnate. The stuff that once built them is no longer rewarded and thus an empire slowly wends its way to decay and insignificance over a period of several human lifespans.
Of course the ironic thing here is that the healthy reaction to that would be like Meiji Japan were at once a big economic and political deus ex machina floats into your capital and everyone turns around and looks at each other and says “Holy Shit, Kenji! What the fuck have we been doing playing bushido games for the past 300 years? We gotta get busy here!” Instead we got the old Manchu Empire thing here going on in the West, where barbarians are knocking on the doors and most everyone is glazing their eyes in front of some electronic opium in their den or going to the gambling hall to increase their money (but losing it most of the time). Then you got the HBD types and White Nationalists, HBD types being like the old Chinese bureaucratic mandarins repeating to themselves hoary old chestnuts about how the Middle Kingdom *is* civilization and those gwailo parvenues are only fit to kowtow, and they can’t possibly surpass a nation that has refined its ability to test talent and raise it accordingly to power. Then you got our latter day Boxers, a nice polite intelligent exterior, but riding on top of a wave of disgruntled illiterate peasants, itching to put some non-Han heads on pikes, damn all the consequences. Fucking civilization takes work, not sitting around talking about how obvious it is that you’re the best. A few generations of that and you get eaten by the hungrier folks even if technically you are smarter and older than them.
2. History and genetics is complicated, interrelated, and messy. Ain’t no fucking axioms here other than death and taxes.
3. Civilization is more than just now. It’s more than standardized test scores or the ability to build and run car factories and cell phones. It’s also more than genetic closeness, much less ethnicity. All these things matter of course, quite heavily, but civilization and national unity and pride it does not make alone.
Yugoslavia was once one of the best nations in the Eastern Bloc. Despite the resolute backwardness of the communist system, it built and designed cars, technology and weaponry. Most folks whether Serb Croat or Bosniak spoke a mutally intelligible language, and in fact were all more or less the same Slavic stock with different religious traditions, which even then weren’t taken too seriously. Yet it all exploded in a very short time and very messily, no NAMs needed. In the end there was no real glue holding them together.
Now let’s take a shithole (relatively speaking). I’m going to go with one yet unmentioned and a bit close to me: Tonga. Low lying over populated atolls that achieved a small Neolithic empire at best. Even a dinky European nation like Belgium could have steamrolled it with a couple boats during the age of colonialism. It was so small, poor and pathetic that no one really could be arsed to colonize it proper. It’s current exports are copra and its citizenry. Without remittances and international aid it would still be a neolithic nation. Hell, even with remittances and aid, I’d say many Carribean nations are better run and in better shape. The best contribution it could ever say it made to the world at large was a yam varietal. Yet they are some of the most resolutely self-identified nationalists I know, with even third gen folks abroad attempting to maintain dual citizenship if possible. I would say if suddenly the remittances and aid money went away they’d be starving neolithic farmer/fishers, but still resolutely Tongan looking back at Tu’i Tonga as the lodestone “That is where we came from and what we once did.” To me that is another element of civilizational strength. Sure, one big tsunami could all wipe it out, but the lights suddenly going out won’t wipe it out.
I have more points, but I realize already spent way too much damn time on a thread where I’m arguing with folks who celebrate how special and perceptive being historically and scientifically ignorant makes ‘em. So screw this shit, I got a timing belt to swap out while the sun is still out.
Nonetheless, I ran his post anyway because of the spirit of dissent that In Mala Fide is all about
Dissent against who? This website’s readers? You, Ferd (because you were listed in the original MWM Obsidian piece as a MWM)? Between Obsidian, who needs to be kicked out from the manosphere completely for being troll with no self awareness, the conspiracy pieces, and the white nationalists who inhabit this place, this place has turned into a joke.
If this place is about dissent try dissenting against real power, not other bloggers or phantoms in some of it authors’ heads.
Recourse has nothing to do with it. You’re effectively saying: it was the Indians who should have moved to avoid encroaching white settlers.
But, if a settler,then, there is also neither any reason for a settler (or white) to move from the infrastructure THEY built, in order to hand it over to primitives who have built NOTHING.
Honestly, do you REALLY want FIREPOWER to play logical whack-a-mole with your statements? OK then…
PROOF:
Tolerating blatant – even institutionalized – hypocrisy in others who plan you harm is no way to enshrine moral certitude in yourself. This thread, after all, is about “the life of the mind.”
Would that this only were the simplistic, solitary battle you need face in the future.
If you haven’t been paying attention to American history since 1950, WHAT you end up with after genteel programs of Minority/White “cooperation” is that Detroit you mentioned. You also get LA.
Once valuable areas occupied by barbarians.
You do NOT get the utopia you want, just because your teacher said it was the nice SWPL thing to say.
Way to bust out some Slayer/Minor Threat. Great song.
@ Spike
Dude, your post really seems to validate my points.
Was your essay anything more than you intellectually patting yourself on the back? We get it: you spent many many years in college, probably earning a worthless humanities degree. It’s called masturbation dude. Your outdated words don’t make you right.
No doubt you are an intelligent person, but I am still trying to figure out what the hell your point is, even after re-reading your diatribe three times.
The only takeaway I can get from it is: “it’s all really complicated and confusing man, and we can point to various exceptions to the rule if we go back in time far enough, so therefore you are not allowed to make any simple observations, cause, it’s like, messy man.”
Perhaps someone with more time, and more inclination to dissect esoteric, muddled arguments can break down your post better than I can.
Here are some takeaways for you, with a certain clarity that you sorely lack:
Proximity+Diversity= War
NAMs do not build lasting civilizations, despite the occasional exception to the rule, unless you twist the definition of civilization.
Multiculturalism does not benefit whites, it only benefits the NAMs who suckle at the teat of white productivity and ingenuity.
Whites would be best served by protecting their own interests, period, even at the expense of other races, because if we allow minorities to gain the upper hand in the USA, they will finish destroying everything we have built over the past 200 years. It’s also a certainty that they would be far less charitable to whites as minorities than we white men have been to them. Can you imagine a black African government setting up a welfare state for its poor white citizens? The idea is laughable.
I am dealing with the world as it is in this century, not trying to flex my pseudo-intellectual muscle by digging up obscure, academic arguments.
I think OneSTDV, Begby, Ryu, Firepower and other White Nationalists here would find Billy Roper’s desired policy changes to be just darling:
http://www.extremepolitics.org/2010/01/08/interview-billy-roper-of-the-nationalist-party-of-america/
“What changes would you make immediately if given power in the West?
I’d declare martial law immediately, dissolve Congress, place majority nonWhite military units on lockdown on their bases, and use the majority White military units to arrest members of Congress and the federal judiciary. Then, gain control of as many air bases and nuclear launching facilities as possible, and after gaining control of the military, recall all U.S. military units from overseas, and use the White units among them, once sorted, to begin the relocation of nonWhites to Mexico or their native country of origin.”
“What do you think the results would be?
Probably, nuclear war with China, or an invasion by the United Nations.”
“Do you think we’re at a historical turning point?
We are at a historical turning point, in terms of the evolutionary future of the species. Multiraciaism will destroy the true diversity which nature requires for natural selection to continue, or we will pass the bottleneck and continue to evolve. This will be decided within our lifetimes, or we will be past the turning point.”
“How much influence does environmentalism have on your views, and is there an environmental crisis; if so, how does it influence any turning points we’re currently approaching?
Environmentalism is so important to me personally that I want to remove the least productive and least contributory ninety percent of the earth’s human population, depopulate Africa and Asia almost completely, and turn those entire continents into vast game preserves.”
“Your platform mentions race almost in passing, where if my historical reading is correct, as a National Socialist you support national racial and ethnic segregation. Why not make this part of your platform? Would you want to achieve total ethnic separation at some point, and how would you do it?
As far as the other races, ultimately, I want to eliminate all of them, I’m a biological racist, Brett. I want to get the evolution of the species back online by making every race except my own extinct, and then encourage the differentiation and specialization within our race so that ethnicities evolve into different new races which can them compete for territory and resources, you know, continuing the cycle. Maybe we can bioengineer new races which will be suitable for colonizing different planets with different atmospheres, eventually, so that we can exponentially increase the speed of group natural selection. Yes, I’m an extremist. But I’m also a pragmatist, and willing to put the feed down there where the chickens can get at it, as George Wallace said. I’m willing to feed mainstream Whites just as much as they are ready for at their particular point in the learning curve. Rock, crawl, totter, walk, run, fly.”
Why step around the intent with Crypto-Supremacism?
Have the courage to admit that you want to curtail my civil rights and possibly murder me because I’m black.
[I also find it interesting that no one has responded to my previous question.]
Begby:
No my essay is grist for the mill of people who actually read books and challenge their own assumptions. Yeah, I got a humanities degree, in retrospect I should have stuck with Computer Science or gone into Accounting which is what I do now. But that’s neither here nor there. I didn’t need a humanities degree to learn what I’ve learned anymore than I needed to learn accounting to get my humanities degree.
Nice try at dodging the question there, friendo.
If you can’t make out what I’m saying, then perhaps the onus is on you for being a proudly uninformed idiot rather than I for saying things you can’t understand? I don’t *get* particle physics myself, nor do I think I have the cognitive ability to ever grasp more than its most basic principles. I don’t, however, go up to particle physicists and tell them they’re full of shit because I don’t understand what they’re saying. Sometimes when you don’t get something, it isn’t because smoke is being blown up your ass, but because you’re a dumbass. If you’re a dumbass, then cop to it.
Can you stop with the fucking axioms BTW? “Proximity + Diversity = War” What differentiates this from the retarded scrawling that Glen Beck vomits forth, or bumper stickers saying “John 3:16″? Easy, simple to understand AND STUPID.
Here, chew on this. Overseas Chinese in SE Asia: In Indonesia they were a market dominant minority subject to violent pogroms. In Malaysia they’re a market dominant minority subject to economic milking and discrimination by the Malay majority. In Singapore they became the majority and yet did not expulse minority Malays and Indians. In Thailand they more or less intermarried and assimilated into the Thai mainstream culture. In Vietnam they assimilated to a certain extent, yet still are a market dominant minority marked more or less solely by surname and not language or culture. In the Philippines, amazingly at one time or another one or more of the above situations was going on!
That’s just one group in one small area! Way more fucking complicated than Proximity + Diversity = War. I also previously mentioned Yugoslavia, where the mostly secular Serbs, Croats and Bosniaks spoke the same damn language more or less, came from the same damn original slavic settler stock, were and still are mostly secular, and yet based on nominal religious affliations, tore themselves to fucking shreds. Yet you also have weird cases like the Sorbs, who somehow managed to remain Slavic speakers and Germans in good standing even during the Kulturekampf period of Bismarckian politics and the psychotic tribalism of the Third Reich. Go figure.
And whatever you think of my arguments (which in this case is dismissing them as too difficult to understand and thus wrong), yours is based on a pillar just as stupid as multiculturalism, namely White Nationalism. If there ain’t no brotherhood of Man, there ain’t gonna be no brotherhood of White Man either. Or Black Man or Hispanophone Man, or what ever bullshit arbitrary grouping you can come up with. History has never really been about competition between races. It’s had competition between French and Germans and British and Americans and various other nationalities and tribes within nations, and the biggest beefs have always been with the fuckers who are just like us, only they don’t have the same interpretation of the holy book, have shit in their yard we want, or speak another language. Hell, even when they say it’s about race like Mr. Toothbrush Mustache did, it makes no fucking sense. How are Poles not white, but Japanese are?
I don’t take black or Hispanic activist groups at their word either. Although ethnic solidarity is a talking point for minority rights groups, it’s not actually practiced by the minorities in question. In 2008, “16% of blacks, 26% of Hispanics and 31% of Asians married someone whose race or ethnicity was different from their own.” “Among adults ages 18 to 32, 93% approve [of intermarriage]” http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1616/american-marriage-interracial-interethnic The “white nationalism is okay if ethnic nationalism is okay” for other ethnic groups argument might be legitimate if ethnic nationalism in other groups were at all analogous to white nationalism, given that other groups don’t give a shit about remaining separate and maintaining ethnic purity. There might be some solidarity along ethnic lines — which is not necessarily racial — but it doesn’t mean what you think it means. A Russian immigrant might hook up his fellow Russians out of loyalty, but that doesn’t mean that he’d refuse to fuck a hot olive-skinned black-haired Colombian chick on general principle if the opportunity presented itself.
You’re a moron. Different traits are distributed at varying frequencies amongst different populations, but individual gene variants don’t necessarily all correlate with each other, nor do they have the same points of origin. Have you ever even looked at a haplogroup map? http://www.scs.illinois.edu/~mcdonald/WorldHaplogroupsMaps.pdf Given that there are people within the “same race” with separate Y-DNA and mtDNA haplogroups, and people of “different races” with the same haplogroups, how do you make these delineations? Are r1a and r1b signatures of “whiteness”, even though not every “white person” has them and millions of “non-white” people have them? Autosomal DNA doesn’t create any more of a clear picture, as there are few groups whose ancestry is confined entirely to one region.
There is no scientific criteria that can be used to delineate discrete races. All there are are specific traits that are distributed at different frequencies in different populations. If you want to call that “race”, then you’re assigning a new meaning to the term.
@ Ruby
While its easy to see that Billy Roper’s words would strike fear and revulsion in the hearts of many, how is it any different than the views blatantly espoused by Farrakhan, or the Reconquista/La Raza movements? It’s really not different at all, is it, except that it’s a white guy saying it so you get your panties in a bunch.
Your question:
“Being that I am a 20-something, non-criminal, educated, socially and civicly active, economically contributive American male who just happens to be black, what would you have done to, for, with or against me in order to better restructure the. U.S. to your traditionalist or ethnonationalist ideals?”
My answer: Absolutely nothing. personally, I’d welcome you and your kind to live and work alongside me in harmony. Too bad you are the minority in the minority.
We don’t need to do anything offensive in order to make great changes. We simply need to stop feeding the cancer with our dysgenic policies. Repeal all welfare, section 8, affirmative action, bulldoze HUD housing, stop presenting false stereotypes in media (like pretending that the average black family is polite, professional, upper middle class). Stop passing minorities in public schools who obviously deserve failing grades. Stop being afraid to expel disruptive students. Lengthen prison time for repeat offenders. Stop rewarding single mothers. Enforce mandatory paternity testing. In short, stop rewarding bad behavior, and start severely punishing it instead.
If you are as you describe yourself, none of this would effect you at all, and none of it would truly be “racist”. These things would have a disproportionate effect on minorities, yes, but they would still be fair. Do you agree?
The irony is that if all these things were enacted, it would do far more to help minorities than anything the liberals have been doing for the past 60 years.
Ruby: Billy Roper is the War Nerd?
“Have the courage to admit that you want to curtail my civil rights and possibly murder me because I’m black.”
That’s the thing. I don’t want to murder YOU. No one hates ONE black man. No one even hates one black family.
It’s when you’ve got an entire neighborhood of disconnected black people running amuck that white people (and Asian people, and Hispanic people, and Jewish people, and Indian people) start to get itchy trigger fingers and even itchier running shoes. Just like women: wonderfully interesting, unique, and fun to have around as individuals; horribly annoying, controlling, obnoxious, and to be avoided in a group.
All race differences are simply fainter versions of fundamental sex differences.
Firepower wrote:
Tolerating blatant – even institutionalized – hypocrisy in others who plan you harm is no way to enshrine moral certitude in yourself.
What I meant to say is that I’m ok with whites self-associating. No more and no less. The liberal platitudes is their hypocrisy, not mine. Sorry if I didn’t make myself clear. Don’t tell me that your against that.
Begby:
Except none of those groups actually reflect the opinions or behaviors of the groups that they purport to represent. I posted the figures from the Pew Study on interracial marriage above. Minority groups intermarry with ethnicities other than their own at a higher rate than whites (which is probably due to being smaller in population, but whatever), which suggest that they are NOT more concerned about maintaining their racial or ethnic purity than whites are. The argument I hear repeated over and over again on HBD sites is, “Non-white groups are tribal, so non-white groups should be too.” Again, being tribal doesn’t mean seeking to maintain separation or ethnic purity. It means that they’re more likely to hook up people of a similar cultural background with job references, business opportunities, etc., and that’s about it. Whites do that too, regardless of political talking points, although it’s usually based upon something more substantive than “whiteness”. An Irish-American guy living in a part of Boston where Irish identity is still strong is more likely to help out another Irish-American from the same neighborhood who has a similar background, but he won’t refuse to fuck a hot Puerto Rican or Italian or Vietnamese girl out general principle.
Tribalism is natural, but white nationalism is not tribalism. It’s an attempt to construct a secular religion based upon an artificial tribe.
If YOU are a black man, YOU should oppose white men having sex with black women. Or Hispanic men having sex with black women, etc.
LOL
The reason the MRM doesn’t push the race-angle is because a lot of the guys like banging non-white women, or at least want to keep that option open.
As a white man:
Let me assure Alte that there isn’t a single race that doesn’t have women in it (at least some) that I wouldn’t happily bang or have as the mother of my children. Humanity trumps race for me.
That being said, you can stop hating on the majority of the major players of the MRM , Alte. Warren Farrell, Glenn Sacks, Marc Angellucci, Pelle Billing and several others I’m too lazy to list : these guys were mostly liberal in political orientation or conservative with a racial integrationist we-are-all-americans philosophy. I don’t think they have any closet racism to hide. That the movement is now bigger and includes (mostly at the commenting level) some HBDer’s and even a few downright racists (it’s possible to be a white or black nationalist without being racist, but in practice its rather rare) which is to be expected in any political movement. The leaders of the MRM and those who’ve done the most the longest- they have nothing to hide, and precious little that interests the white or black nationalists on these blogs.
@Chris
I met her through friends. I honestly did not think I would find a woman I’d be interested in any sort of meaningful relationship with in my lifetime, as the number of women out there who I would match up with are about 1 in 10,000, if not fewer. I think the most important thing is that she knows I’m a smart guy, and honest. She may not “like” some of the things I say, but she knows I’m right. She comes from a somewhat conservative family, moderately religious, with a strict father, and parents and family who do NOT get divorced. She was a virgin before she met me. I am her world. And truth be told, she is a large part of mine. She is someone who is willing to accept the truth if it presents itself, though, as a woman, I know her biological desires will in some cases override her rational thought. We are actually both very “different” people, yet similar and complementary in so many ways that I don’t think either of us would ever settle for someone else. There is no one who could compare to me in her eyes, and although as a male I am naturally polygamous, and certainly look and flirt with other women, I am so disgusted with most “modern” women today and apprehensive of false claims of assault and STDs that there is no reason for me to pursue another with any seriousness. I didn’t sleep with a woman for 2 years before I met her, and that was by choice. I’ve still got porn if I want a little variety, and perhaps a threesome someday if we find a woman worthy of it, but I highly doubt it, and the lady is not interested in other women. I speak freely about all of this with her. We are atypical, I’m sure. I would say she is not extremely conservative or liberal, but somewhere in between, and she understands the values of a conservative lifestyle. I was never a very conservative person, either, until I started to learn a bit over the past few years. And I’m an atheist.
There are a few good women out there – Hestia from The Spearhead is an example. They all tend to be fairly conservative. I don’t know what the numbers are for potentially good women – seeing as if you don’t know how to handle them, they usually won’t be good – but they’re not pretty.
Honestly, I just think I am extremely lucky. I avoided some pitfalls in my life that could have had me in a very different place today, and I stumbled upon some of the realities of the world that I never had considered before, that make me see humanity in a much clearer light than I ever had. I also stumbled upon a “good” woman to spend my life with. Sometimes I wonder if there is a God and he’s just waiting to take it all away from me – though not very seriously.
You seem to be genuinely curious in seeking knowledge.
The hypocrisy of the liberals you mention is that of a white Uncle Tom. They’re Eminems who are de facto black, as they support only blacks. That’s not only being a hypocrite – that rises to the level of traitor.
btw, eminem so loves the blacks, he lives FAR out of Detroit, in one of the richest WHITE suburbs. In the biggest house.
White males have NO free speech. Only minorities. The President Obama via his cabinet member Attorney General Holder have said so.
YOU as a black female have MORE civil rights than ANY American, and that is the most un-American concept. It will tear this country apart until there is only one solution.
Farrakhan has been preaching murdering whites for decades, and that’s fine with “our” government. Well, it’s YOUR government.
Holder says persecuting white voters by Black Panthers is fine.
As far a as murdering you, if you were more of an American like Tomas Sowell or Walter Williams, that outcome would be unconscionable.
The reality is, your people are Affirmative Discrimation supporters, and quota supporters for college and jobs. With white males your majority target and victim.
Fifth Horseman–
I usually agree with you. But that was a silly statement. It depends upon the context, or area.
In Response to Begby :
[1] Billy Roper’s naive idealist “purity without regard to consequences” White Supremacism is exactly like Farrakhan and La Raza’s in vitriol and vanity.
I oppose all three due to knowing that their desired socio-political changes would result in the Eschaton — The End of the Western World.
I don’t oppose Billy Roper because he’s white — I oppose him because he’s a megalomaniacal and genocidal sociopath who would sacrifice not only me, but millions of whites to bring about his version of some sort of Neo-Nazi post-sci-fi paradise.
[2] I agree with your desired policy changes — Even though I think they would lead to significant social and political discord in the short term.
The thing is, though, that these policy changes have been championed by Goldwater Conservatives and Paleo-Conservatives for years.
Why be sympathetic to White Nationalism and Supremacism if a more acceptable and better marketed political faction could achieve the same goals, more viably?
In Response to Epoetker and OneSTDV :
I don’t have the definitive answer for the slow degradation that results from black Americans pooling into a geographical region en masse.
I do know however that the effect is caused by some very complex, interconnected issues that have more to do with legacy socio-cultural and socio-economic factors rather than whatever inherent genetic deficiencies Hereditarian Biological Determinists would like to attribute to black people in general.
On that note, I find it disturbing and rationally criminal that in the Alt-Right and HBD Blogospheres, no distinction is readily made between socio-economic tiers of black Americans; Plenty of speculation is aimed towards statements blanketing us all as similarly dysfunctional — Very little, however, seems to be said about positive causes and effects stemming from higher class blacks.
I wonder why that is?
In Response to Firepower :
[1] White men have no free speech? I’m sorry that you feel it is an injustice that you cannot utter white nationalist or supremacist views in public without raising the ire of others.
I can’t express my desire to enact vigilante fantasies on anti-2nd Amendment liberal legislators every time they co-opt the tragedy of psychotic mass murders for their “Brady Bunch Agenda” in mixed company without consequences, either.
I don’t think either casual restriction on our words in public for the sake of social convenience constitute a lapse in the principles of the First Amendment.
[2] Once, again, I AM A MAN. I realize that I didn’t choose the most masculine screenname, but I’ve stated my gender at least twice in previous conversations.
Can you objectively prove that I as a black MAN have more civil rights than any other person of a particular ethnic and gender pairing present here in the U.S.?
I could write volumes on the level of learned paranoia and caution that many law abiding black men must learn and practice to avoid unfair treatment by the U.S. Government, Law Enforcement Agencies and Judicial Systems.
Don’t even get me started on the extra, semi-supported systemic-wide abuses of black men who enjoy and practice their 2nd Amendment freedoms.
Lets both open carry legally in a yuppie town and see who gets harassed by cops first.
[3] Farrakhan is a delusional idiot who is ESPECIALLY marginalized and hated by most black Americans. I don’t know why you keep concentrating exclusively on his particular idiotic statements as proof of some sort of “BLACK RUN AMERICA”.
He’s as politically and culturally relevant today as VHS tapes.
[4] Neither do I understand your obsession with AG Eric Holder. The recent Black Panther fiasco is probably one of the most obscure and inconsequential blips on the vast map of the Culture War in the past few years.
[5] You HAVE explicitly stated a desire to genocide black Americans recently in the “The Other 800 lb. Gorilla…” article here at In Mala Fide:
“Until you all are like Sowell – you deserve eradication to prevent this country from turning into Somalia.” — are your exact words.
Somehow I doubt Thomas Sowell would agree with your measures.
[6] When have I ever stated a desire to preserve the Welfare State in ANY CAPACITY? You keep accusing all black commenters here of being willing supporters of Welfare and Affirmative Action; Yet you balk at demonstrating any proof of this complicity.
YOU do the most to invalidate your own arguments. Their irrationality is as disturbing as it is instantly apparent.
If I want to tell King George’s men they can go hang – so be it. This once was a free country until your Preferential Racism was employed.
Freedom? If I call a nigger a nigger, I’ll get into more SOCIALIST GOVERNMENT trouble than a pair of Black Panthers threatening white voters with cudgels.
On video.
On Youtube.
In Response to Firepower :
Consequences exist
For all parties regardless
Of your desires
@buby
You give empty platitudes in response to two concrete incidents I fired at you; you are a timewaster.
There is a time and place
for this waste of space
in the fireplace.™
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