Sperm smuggling in the shadow of menopause

by Ferdinand Bardamu on September 28, 2010

in Gender War

Via Advocatus Diaboli, the barren wombs of unmarried careerist chicks approaching infertility are crying out for conceptive release. Their cries are so loud and painful that their owners are resorting to the black market to fill them with the stuff of life. Alas, those who have turned their middle finger to the god of biomechanics suffer his silent wrath as surely as buzzards pick the flesh from corpses:

The couple’s liaison lasted little more than five minutes and was conducted, in swift and furtive fashion, in a city car park late one Friday night. When their business, hurried and impersonal, was concluded, they shook hands awkwardly, wished each other a stilted “good evening” and left in separate cars, with no suggestion that they might ever meet again. If all runs smoothly, however, in nine months’ time, their baby – the result of that car park encounter – will be born.

When Taquisha from the ghetto wants a fuck-trophy without the hassle of a man, she hooks up with Tashawn the thug from three blocks down. When Clarissa the respectable middle-class high-achiever wants a kid, she has a guy she met on the Internet whack off into a spoon.

Their swift transaction was not, as one might assume, of a sexual nature. Instead, Peter Smith simply handed over a specimen flask containing his sperm to Clarissa, a 42-year-old IT consultant he had met on the internet. The insemination process, he says, was a matter for her alone. He had honoured his part of the pact: the future was solely Clarissa’s concern.

Yeah right. Here’s how their conversation probably went:

Midway through the masturbation, Peter’s erection was deflating. He kept cranking even as his penis was retreating to the flaccid safety of his waxed crotch.

“What’s taking you so bloody long?” Clarissa asked.

“I’m losing…show me your tits,” Peter replied.

“I’m not showing you my boobs!” Clarissa ejaculated, readying her palm for a slap across the face.

Wheezing, Peter said, “If you want to have this kid, you need me to cum. Show. Me. Your. Tits.”

Clarissa relented, unbuttoning her shirt and unclasping her bra. As her wrinkled breasts fell to Earth, Peter’s peter began its slow salute. With renewed resolve, he cranked on.

“Ugh…oh…oh…UNGGHHHHHHHH!”

And it was done. The milky white stuff, collected in the test tube, glistened in the streetlight.

If her pregnancy runs to term, she will be overjoyed and her dreams of motherhood fulfilled. Divorced and unable to conceive with her long-term partner, Clarissa’s yearning to bear a child of her own was borne of an all-too-understandable desperation.

The exception that proves the rule. The best time to use your God-given equipment is when it’s brand new, not when the expiration date is past and the damn thing has rust spots.

Like so many women who long to have children, she initially contacted a reputable and licensed fertility clinic where she underwent two cycles of treatment. But with each costing £1,500 and involving a lengthy wait (in some areas of the UK, as long as eight years), thanks to a nationwide shortage of donated sperm, she became one of the thousands of women who have resorted to unregulated fertility websites.

Last I was aware, sperm donors got paid for their service. I wonder if those stories of sperm donors getting sued for child support have scared off prospects? Congratulations, ladies, for killing the dick that squirted the golden spooge.

But while these women’s desires are commonplace, the consequences can be anything but. Yesterday, the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority (HFEA) admitted it is launching an investigation into what it considers the abundance of “unethical” fertility websites. The body has become concerned that they could put the health of vulnerable women at risk, leave a generation of children facing future heartache, and have long-reaching legal implications for both mother and donor.

I would think the mere fact of being conceived with a turkey baster would cause enough heartache for a kid.

Its decision comes in the wake of the trial of Nigel Woodforth and Ricky Gage, who netted £250,000 for illegally acting as “bagmen” via an online fertility operation they ran from a basement. Convicted at Southwark Crown Court last week, they are awaiting sentencing – the first to be found guilty of procuring sperm without a licence from the HFEA, contravening legislation that came into effect two years ago. The legislation, which entitled children born as the result of licensed sperm donation to track down their natural fathers, has discouraged men from donating sperm, fearing they will become financially responsible for the resulting offspring.

And see? I was right! The avarice of single old ladies HAS scared off potential sperm donors. You could have had your screwed up Down syndrome kid all to yourself, ladies, but you had to be greedy. You had to keep pressing for more. You are part of a league of morons, the morons I’ve been fighting my whole life. My whole fucking life. But guess what…today, I win.

With one in seven British couples facing fertility problems, the clinics have hitherto been their best hope to have a child. But as supplies dwindle, unregulated websites have flourished.

Increasingly, those such as Co-ParentMatch.com and FeelingBroody.com are seen by women anxious to conceive as quicker and cheaper alternatives to the regulated route. Such is their popularity that one site alone receives more than two million hits each month. The thousands of members of such sites pay monthly subscription fees – although the donor isn’t paid as such, the sites may recommend a “courier fee” of as high as £150 – and most women agree to pay incidental costs such as hotels or travel.

Damn, sounds like these guys got a good scam going.

The women who use the site are, in the main, professionals – many in high-powered jobs – who want to be mothers but do not want the baggage that goes with a long-term relationship. Their reasons are many and varied.

Read: “I want to pass on my genes, but decades of clawing my way to the top of the socioeconomic ladder have turned me into a bitter old cunt that no man wants to deal with.”

Pam, single and 41, wrote in her profile: “Becoming aware of biological clock ticking away and, being single, felt I need to be quite proactive about seeing what other options were available.”

Would that you were “proactive” before your uterus started to rot.

Another, Pkare, single and 32, writes: “I want a child but haven’t found a man worthy enough to take the status of ‘father’, so it is down to me to take things into my own hands.”

Even when she’s lost everything, when she’s down for the count and everyone is laughing at her, a woman never deigns to lower her standards. The rationalization hamster doesn’t die until she does.

From an ethical point of view, the fact that many actively do not want the donor to have any contact with the child throws up concerns. Dr Phil Canner, who writes for the Bulletin of Medical Ethics, says there could be far-reaching consequences. “We could see a whole raft of children growing up without a father figure. Yes, that happens naturally in life. But this is a conscious decision, and one wonders about the morality of that. When these children are old enough to ask about their father, explaining how the mother became pregnant could be an emotional minefield. Frankly, from a child’s point of view, these sites are ethically unsupportable.”

Wait, wait, wait…someone is actually arguing that children NEED fathers to grow up into healthy, well-adjusted fathers? That the male isn’t just a human dildo? Omigod, how reactionary!

One major concern over the sites is that, unlike in regulated clinics, such sites guarantee none of the health safeguards against sexually transmitted infections or HIV. There is no formal process to ensure that sperm donations are “clean”, leaving the women to rely solely upon the donor’s word, or medical certificates he produces. And all too often the men involved are seeking what the websites describe as “natural insemination” – shorthand for no-strings, unprotected sex.

It is the potential health risks that most concerns the HFEA. As a spokesman points out: “If you use a site that does not direct you to a licensed clinic, you put yourself at risk that the sample you receive is neither safe nor screened. Or that the donor is not who they claim to be.”

If you’re stupid enough to put a foreign substance you obtained off the street in your vagina, and if you’re ignorant enough to think men wouldn’t take advantage of this to try to rawdog you, you deserve all the misery that’s headed your way.

According to Dr Allan Pacey, from the University of Sheffield, the fact that most donors become involved for purely financial reasons means they have little incentive to ensure they have a clean bill of health.

“A licensed clinic will run tests before taking samples, and again six months after the last sample was taken and frozen,” he explains. “And it is only after this final check that the sperm is used. These sites cut out that process, which means the women are at risk from blood-borne and sexually transmitted diseases, including HIV. [Donated sperm] may also carry genetic disorders such as Down’s syndrome.”

Um, I thought Down syndrome was caused by advanced maternal age, meaning that the broads who use these services are at risk whether their donor is clean or not. Who gave this dumbass a medical degree?

The risks, he says, are even greater if the donor has a predatory intent. “If a man wants to impregnate women, insisting on natural insemination, that ups the likelihood that he will be in poor sexual health. It is blatant profiteering at the expense of women who are driven by a very natural and biological maternal urge.”

Professor Ian Craft, one of the country’s leading fertility experts, is equally concerned. “No one, but no one, should use sperm they have acquired from internet sites,” he says. “It is fresh, not frozen, and thus often unscreened. Frozen sperm is screened intensively over six months. HIV antibodies may not show up before that period, which is why it is so important.”

Wait, what? Impregnation fetishism? And these fetishists tend to have bad sperm? I’ve never heard of guys who got off on the conception of children. Creampies, yes. Pregnancy fetishism? Yes. (I believe YouPorn has categories for both.) The union of ovum and sperm? Not exactly. Again, who gave this idiot a degree?

For women and donors who use licensed fertility clinics, the law, too, is quite clear: the donor is not the legal father and has no rights or financial responsibility for any resulting children. With unregulated websites, however, both parties sleepwalk into a legal quagmire.

As Louisa Ghevaert, a partner with the specialist fertility law firm Gamble and Ghevaert, points out: “Peoples’ desire to have a child is incredibly strong and shouldn’t be underestimated. Women who run the gauntlet and conceive informally with a donor without understanding the legal issues risk misery not just for themselves but for the child, in the future.

Such as…? Seriously, WHAT legal risks do women undertake here? Throw me a frickin bone here.

And there are risks for the donor, too. He may be treated as the legal father, with all the accompanying financial responsibilities. The mother risks unwanted involvement from the donor if he seeks to assert his status.

Somehow I doubt this will be a problem, you misandrist slag.

“The child, in later life, may not be able to trace his or her biological father. Donor-conception law is very complicated and people can easily fall foul of legal pitfalls if they do not appreciate the difference between conceiving at licensed clinics and conceiving with privately donated sperm. The consequences for the unwitting can be devastating.”

You’d be able to solve this problem by making it sensible to form families again…but you won’t. This toilet can’t be unflushed.

On most sites, women can outline how much, if any, contact they want with a donor, and many draw up what they believe are binding contracts. But in law, the documents are worthless. Recently, Andy Bathie, a fireman from Woking, who fathered a child through an informal arrangement with a lesbian couple, was contacted by the Child Support Agency seeking maintenance. The child’s “parents” had separated and Mr Bathie was left with a bill for £425 a month.

And they shake their heads and wonder why, just WHY men won’t willingly put their cocks in a grain thresher.

According to Jenny Kearns, who founded Co-ParentMatch.com – which allows members to send messages to each other or post a blog seeking suitable donors – there was a gap in the market which she has filled. “My [female] partner and I were approaching our thirties and discussed having a baby,” she says. “All there appeared to be were various forums with random people posting messages.

It was already out there but very ad hoc.” Some men, she admitted, contacted the site seeing it solely as a way to have sex. “If men go on and say they will only offer natural insemination, I would stay clear of that and most do.”

If you believe that, I’ve got a prairie in Southampton to sell you.

For many women, the sites have brought little but heartache. Clarissa – who had a profile on a sperm donor website and agreed to speak to the Sunday Telegraph on condition of anonymity – has, to date, contacted five donors but has not conceived with any of them.

“I ignore the men who insist on natural insemination and those who want a relationship with the child,” she says. “I like to keep the whole thing business-like, frankly. I ask a lot of questions about their health but, admittedly, I have no way of checking if they are telling the truth. Then we make an arrangement to meet for the hand-over. It’s as simple as that.

“But it hasn’t worked, and I’ve had terrible trouble with two of them who keep pestering me online. Frankly, I’m glad I didn’t conceive because they are clearly the type who thought this whole thing would lead to some sort of sexual relationship. All I wanted was a child of my own. Now I feel I’ve been used in a rather grubby sort of way.”

It may not be nice, but you’re paying the price of ignoring the sell-by date on your genetic hardware. Hope you’ve picked out a favorite cat food brand.

Others, such as Susan, a 44-year-old from Oxfordshire, have had more positive experiences. With one son already, Susan desperately wanted another, but did not want a new, long-term partner.

“I wasn’t in a relationship, and didn’t want to get into one,” she explains. “I went on the site and got lots of responses. In fact, I was flooded with them. I started to chat to my donor, and that went on for six months before I decided to go ahead and start the process. I was very specific in what I was looking for, even though there would be no contact between the donor and child. I wanted a well-educated person with personality, intelligence, and a similar background to myself – university educated. He also had similar features to mine.”

Such entitlement. You think you deserve the seed of a man of class, when you yourself have nothing to offer. Your ‘tarded progeny will serve as a shoe shiner in the coming Mormon-Muslim-Latino Catholic idiocracy.

Susan and her donor developed a routine that worked for them. “As I didn’t want to come face-to-face with him, I prepared a room in my house for him. Then I would disappear into another part of the house and he would let himself in and go into the room. He would leave the sperm and, once he’d gone, I would inseminate myself. I was very relaxed about it. It wasn’t at all an uncomfortable experience. Rather, I would say the experience was tremendously positive. To this day we still haven’t met, although we do talk on the phone still. I regard him as a good friend.

Loser.

“I worked with him and tried to become pregnant with his sperm for about a year, but the closest I ever got was a six-week pregnancy, which ended in miscarriage. I had given myself a time period, deciding that if I wasn’t pregnant within a year, I would stop. So I decided to call it a day. My only regret was that I didn’t decide to do it earlier.”

And that fetus went Haaaaaw Haaaaaw!

I’ve said it before, and I’ll keep saying it until it seeps in or my liver gives way to cirrhosis – choices have consequences. A woman’s reproductive organs are designed to function best when she’s young, hot and tight, not when she’s old, ugly and loose. You want to spend your salad years trying to make partner at Sokolove & Steinberg? Well, you’re going to have to forget about kids, at least kids that aren’t autistic and socially stunted. You can’t hit the pause button on Mother Nature, and you won’t get any sympathy from anyone for trying. These gals are like fatasses who demand the right to eat ice cream all day and not gain weight, and they deserve neither our sympathy nor our aid.

{ 47 comments… read them below or add one }

1 Jake Turner September 28, 2010 at 6:33 am

In Britain you only get expenses for donating, and the kid has the right to come looking for you later, hence the lack of cum for purchase.

2 finndistan September 28, 2010 at 7:46 am

So what is so unethical about men jerking off into a spoon and the woman using the to conceive than a woman putting a hole in the condom, saying she is on the pill and such?

By unethical I mean making it a man’s crime.

The fact that the donor cannot be traced when the mother needs state support?

It was never unethical to trick a man into conceiving and then screwing him and his other offspring emotionally and financially, depriving a child of its father; now suddenly the slight chance that the man can disappear is a crime?

C’mon.

Btw, nowhere in the article it mentions that it is unethical for a woman to have sex with a spoon.

Wait a year or two, men will be charge with rape, for jerking off into a spoon, and the spoon used by the woman’s hands, failing to conceive. “Rape under the false pretense of conception.”

3 Amateur Strategist September 28, 2010 at 8:31 am

Finndistan has a lot of what I was going to say down, but I’ll go ahead and get my main point out anyway.

It’s “unethical” for Men to use the higher demand of women trying to concieve to get free sex (hell, in some cases, PAID to have sex), but there’s nothing wrong with women’s use of a Man’s need for sex to have a child he doesn’t agree to have?

4 ReaderLon September 28, 2010 at 9:29 am

Indeed, I requested information from different fertility clinics in London last year to see what the deal is.

Initially, they hold an informal information session and check of physical traits. Then, if you continue they run quite a few health checks (STDs, inherited diseases, sperm stability etc.) on you. Then once judged appropriate you have to visit the clinic a couple of time within half a year and get paid like 10-15 pounds per session, and
plus another 10-15 pounds which are withheld until some posterior checks half a year later.

So this goes down to the motivation of men? Is it money for men? I doubt it. Basically, the men get a tiny amount for their sperm. However, the clinics charge the women several thousands pounds, which is not quite a fair deal. Especially, with the risk of potential financial responsibilities if the clinic does not have sufficient legal protection.

Is it pride to give sperm to the next generation? Is it pride to help career women out? What is it?

In the tubes/underground in London you see advertisements for fertility clinics all over the place. Some even try to shame men into donating. Like the sperm banks are the real banking crisis. Men you need to help those poor women out!

5 happyexpat September 28, 2010 at 9:36 am

This post is depressing.

Not because the desperation of older women who have lost their best reproductive years trying to follow the delusions of feminism…. We all know that and this is not the only article about this topic.

It is depressing because the lack of dignity about men.

- A old hag creates a profile in one of those websites and IT GETS LOTS OF OFFERS!!!???

- What is in for the man? Some quick sex with a woman with wrinkles and saggy tits?

- But wait, sex does not happen (theoretically). The sperm donation is not paid (besides some logistics: hotel, travel). So WTF there are so many men willing to give their sperm away?

- The case of Susan is infuriating. The woman even refused to know the man face-to-face and the man accepted their control-freaky procedure. He did it exactly as she said. What kind of mangina is well with being treated with such a contempt?

What is the problem with men? Really. It is not strange that feminism has won with so many manginas in American society. The strange thing is that the thing has not gone further and the entire male sex has not been outlawed (while men applauding and cheering their female masters).

Most men are losers and deserve what they have.

6 Advocatus Diaboli September 28, 2010 at 9:37 am

The funniest line was-

“Its decision comes in the wake of the trial of Nigel Woodforth and Ricky Gage, who netted £250,000 for illegally acting as “bagmen” via an online fertility operation they ran from a basement. ”

Two guys making money as ‘bagmen’ for fresh semen in a business run from their basement.

7 Amateur Strategist September 28, 2010 at 9:50 am

No wait, I got it.

Since they want to lock away “johns” but not the prostitutes themselves, they should fine/jail these women, but let the ones running these “unregistered centers” free. Either that or bargain with them; if you name 3 more women you helped in this way, we’ll let you off free.

8 Dalrock September 28, 2010 at 10:34 am

If all runs smoothly, however, in nine months’ time, their baby – the result of that car park encounter – will be born.

The older a woman gets, the longer it takes to get pregnant. Assuming she is late 30s or early 40s like the other women in the story, it is highly unlikely that this one parking lot jerk & baste session will knock her up.

9 Φ September 28, 2010 at 11:01 am

I can’t let this go by:

The risks, he says, are even greater if the donor has a predatory intent. “If a man wants to impregnate women, insisting on natural insemination, that ups the likelihood that he will be in poor sexual health. It is blatant profiteering at the expense of women who are driven by a very natural and biological maternal urge.”

So, in a single paragraph, the author asserts that a man’s desire to procreate (or, at any rate, engage in intercourse for that purpose) is a sign of “poor sexual health,” whereas a woman’s desire for a baby without a husband is “natural and biological”.

Gotta love that evenhandedness.

10 Zeek September 28, 2010 at 11:39 am

I wish upon these selfish and entitled single mothers by choice nothing but pain and misery. Why are women allowed to think that having a child without a father is their human right? 99.9% of convicts doing hard time in the penitentiary were raised in broken homes lead by a single mother.

11 Mormon Man September 28, 2010 at 11:58 am

Such entitlement. You think you deserve the seed of a man of class, when you yourself have nothing to offer. Your ‘tarded progeny will serve as a shoe shiner in the coming Mormon-Muslim-Latino Catholic idiocracy.

I would rather women like this shined my shoes than represented my Church.

12 Mike T September 28, 2010 at 12:17 pm

Frankly, from a child’s point of view, these sites are ethically unsupportable.

What is this? Someone actually acknowledging that reproduction involves ethical issues other than the consent of Two Free and Equal Ubermenschen?

13 MQ September 28, 2010 at 12:17 pm

When will you catch on that British tabloid rags like the Daily Mail MAKE SHIT UP just to get a rise out of readers like you and sell more papers? Do you think it’s a coincidence that every week they have a new article stuffed full of ridiculous/outrageous quotes by either young sluts or aging careerist bitches (carefully identified only by first name, notice)? Society has a universal interest in female fucked-upness (male fucked-upness is only noticeable if it leads to a spree killing), and these tabloids just make up a different way to play on that every week. Constantly linking to those articles is like linking to stories from the Weekly World News and being all outraged about them.

14 Lavazza September 28, 2010 at 12:24 pm

MQ: Might be. But go to any parents’ (or rather mothers’) web site and you will find a sub forum of women wanting to go it on their own. In Sweden it is prohibited but there is a lot of sperm tourism to Denmark and maybe also to the Baltics.

15 Abelard Lindsey September 28, 2010 at 1:04 pm

It sounds like a good business opportunity to me.

BTW, I’ve heard you can make sperm (and ova) from stem cells.

16 Ancel De Lambert September 28, 2010 at 1:22 pm

Hey Ferdi, how much for the pasture?

17 Snark September 28, 2010 at 2:21 pm

“When will you catch on that British tabloid rags like the Daily Mail MAKE SHIT UP just to get a rise out of readers like you and sell more papers?”

Except the article in question was printed in The Telegraph, about the most reputable broadsheet (i.e. not tabloid) newspaper in the UK.

18 TAS September 28, 2010 at 5:47 pm

“Natural insemination” appears to be a euphemism for “prostituion.”

19 TAS September 28, 2010 at 5:47 pm

Oops. That should be “prostitution.”

20 David Alexander September 28, 2010 at 6:56 pm

You’d be able to solve this problem by making it sensible to form families again…but you won’t. This toilet can’t be unflushed.

Actually, even if that happened, why would you want to form a family when you can play Gran Turismo 5 or Halo all day?

So WTF there are so many men willing to give their sperm away?

They like the idea of having lots of children that they don’t have any direct responsibility toward.

21 Racer X September 28, 2010 at 6:58 pm

Great post. The iron laws of nature cannot be ignored. All of us, but especially women, are still bound by millenia of evolution to bear children when we are young, in our twenties. Even male sperm begins to lose some of its potency as a man gets into his forties.

Perhaps when the artificial womb is perfected this will all become a moot point. Until then, we can see from this article how some nations of the West are committing national suicide. Low birth rates, children without fathers, women wanting children in their late thirties and forties, are all unsustainable for a industrialized, technological society. A woman used to be a grandmother in her forties, now she wants to be first time mother. etc. It is a recipe for long term social fragmentation. You are correct when you say choices have consequences, not only for the individual but for the society as a whole.

22 Tarl September 28, 2010 at 7:57 pm

All I wanted was a child of my own.

Gotta love that aspect of it. She doesn’t want to raise a child with a husband, and she doesn’t want a child that has a father. Nope, this is all about her needs! She wants a child that is her own – not anybody else’s, and not even one that belongs to itself and has its own needs.

23 David Alexander September 28, 2010 at 8:08 pm

To be honest, it makes some sense. Why not have a little person that’s highly dependent on you, who will worship you for a few years, call you mommy, and make you feel special and induce society’s elevation of your status? The father just gets in the way and forces shared attention, and living with a beta male is a puke-worthy nightmare for most women.

24 Professor Hale September 28, 2010 at 10:11 pm

So they go back to doing it the old fashioned way. Pick up some stranger in a bar. Plenty of men will give them what they want if they never have to see them again.

25 Gil September 29, 2010 at 12:26 am

“‘I’m not showing you my boobs!’ Clarissa ejaculated, readying her palm for a slap across the face.”

LOL! That usage of “ejaculation” is now considered archaic. But you knew that anyway

26 William September 29, 2010 at 3:12 am

I actually know a lesbian couple w/ kids who’ve recently gotten divorced.

In a conversation a friend asked why one of the woman did’nt get in contact with the Donor, and ask for some money.

Thing is the Donor is a close friend of their’s.

I would love to meet this guy so i can laugh in his face.

27 Höllenhund September 29, 2010 at 4:30 am

Racer X,

I like your blog and I don’t want to sound like an ass, but the social fragmentation you correctly identify was made possible by the social and scientific changes – feminism, the invention of the Pill, women’s wide economic opportunities – that enable you to sport-fuck young single women.

28 Reginald September 29, 2010 at 5:49 am

The risks, he says, are even greater if the donor has a predatory intent. “If a man wants to impregnate women, insisting on natural insemination, that ups the likelihood that he will be in poor sexual health.

Does he mean he’d have an STD?

How come?

Professor Ian Craft, one of the country’s leading fertility experts, is equally concerned. “No one, but no one, should use sperm they have acquired from internet sites,” he says. “It is fresh, not frozen, and thus often unscreened…”

In other words, just like the sperm a woman would get from having sex.

Does this guy also tell women to avoid trying to get pregnant by having sex?

29 Reginald September 29, 2010 at 5:50 am

That’s fertility experts for you. They have an interest in scaring people away from any form of reproduction which doesn’t involve paying a fertility expert thousands of dollars.

30 Reginald September 29, 2010 at 5:58 am

Susan and her donor developed a routine that worked for them. “As I didn’t want to come face-to-face with him, I prepared a room in my house for him…”

Weird.

What if the guy used a fake picture of Rudolph Valentino, knowing the crazy bird would never see his actual face?

31 Tarl September 29, 2010 at 6:59 am

So they go back to doing it the old fashioned way. Pick up some stranger in a bar. Plenty of men will give them what they want if they never have to see them again.

As it happens, I know a guy who picked up a chick in a bar for a one-night stand, and knocked her up, and he’s been paying for the unwanted (from his perspective) brat ever since. In short, this approach might solve the woman’s problem, but it very likely creates problems for the man — especially after the woman broods for a while and then decides he should “man up and shoulder his responsibility to the child”.

32 Racer X September 29, 2010 at 8:13 pm

Hollenhund,

Yes, I agree with you. There is a contradiction in my approach: I enjoy the system of easy sex while at the same time recognizing the destructiveness on society of that same system. Unfortunately, my enjoyment of pussy overrides my concern for the overall welfare of Western civilization, at least for now.

As Saint Augustine used to say, “Give me chastity, Lord, but not yet.”

33 Höllenhund September 30, 2010 at 11:07 am

Racer X,

if you’re an alpha, you’d get easy sex in a traditionally patriarchy as well – but only after marriage and only from your wife, who would likely be hot.

34 Bob Smith September 30, 2010 at 10:13 pm

Wait, wait, wait…someone is actually arguing that children NEED fathers to grow up into healthy, well-adjusted fathers?

Most likely, that’s not what he’s arguing. I hear plenty of “children need fathers” rhetoric, but when you drill down to specifics all the speaker really means by that is “we need a father for his money”. They certainly don’t mean that a father is necessary for his parental role.

35 David Alexander September 30, 2010 at 11:05 pm

if you’re an alpha, you’d get easy sex in a traditionally patriarchy as well – but only after marriage and only from your wife, who would likely be hot

While the alpha still wins when compared to the quality of women that the other men will obtain, I fail to see the advantages for alphas and betas.

36 Höllenhund October 1, 2010 at 8:17 am

Excellent observation, Bob Smith.

37 mark October 1, 2010 at 5:48 pm

Though I enjoyed reading this, I have to correct you. Down Syndrome (Trisomy 21) is caused due to genetics, but advancing maternal age (past 35 years of age) increases the likelihood of it’s occurrence. She is right; you are wrong.

38 Reginald October 4, 2010 at 1:06 pm

While the alpha still wins when compared to the quality of women that the other men will obtain, I fail to see the advantages for alphas and betas.

Just think of how much easier it was for men to get sex back in the days when they had a live in sex slave who had to sex it up on command.

Who needs this sh-t where you have to impress some bird everytime you wanna get it on?

39 Anonymous October 13, 2010 at 6:25 pm

How very sad. As if there aren’t enough children around without fathers in their lives.

Some clarification on the facts though:

The end of anonymous sperm donation in the UK was not linked to sperm donators possibly having to pay child support. It was to do with the rights of the child to know their biological parents, there were changes in adoption law as well. This was the last government, it also brought in ‘parental responsibility’, before that if men were not married they had far less rights than married men, regardless of the relationship they had with the mother, i.e. law does not assign anything with cohabitation. Now a man who is not married to the mother can establish parental responsibly when a child is born, if he wants to.

I think sperm donation is now back up to previous levels, but donor profile has changed from young single men to older men, but there is a shortage dating back to the law changing.

The potential legal risks to the women they are referring to are most likely a sperm donor deciding he wants access or rights to the child before they are 18. Presumably most of these women who go down this sperm donation route don’t want this, otherwise they would seek to get pregnant by someone they know.

Down’s syndrome is caused by a few factors. It’s to do with an an extra chromosome which can come from the man as well as the woman. Though I am surprised that the doctor chose to use that as an example, there are better. Though presumably by sexual health, he meant STDs rather than ‘bad sperm’.

Maternal age definitely is the biggest factor in Down’s Syndrome, though most children with it in the UK, about 80% are born to women under 35. This is because most children are born to women under 35 and the risks of Down’s syndrome whilst greater at older ages are not as great as some may think, at age 35 the chance of not having a baby with it is 99.95% compared to 99.75% at age 20. Even by the age of 45, it is 97%.

Compare these stats to say a 25 year old woman getting pregnant whilst she is on the pill (which at maximum effectiveness is 99% effective but in practice, even if she takes it properly more like 92-98% because of factors like alcohol impacting absorption, stomach upsets etc).

40 Lily October 13, 2010 at 6:35 pm

Previous comment with the Down’s Syndrome stats was mine.

And dalrock is right, the biggest problem for the older women is time to conception so it’s unlikely that they will get pregnant by this ‘dodgy’ sperm. It’s not like at a clinic where they can go in every month. Or with a new partner where conception can be super fast because of all the crazy sex hormones.

(I also read once that newly married women in their 40s had similar rates of DS to women in their 20s but can’t remember where).

Anecdotally, I personally know of 2 instances of donor sperm.
One the woman (god she is going to be one of those awful alpha helicopter mummies, but I wish her all the best, hopefully end up different). She is in her early 40s. She tried several times with donor sperm and was unsuccessful . Then she got into a new relationship, they didn’t use contraception thinking she was infertile and she was pregnant within 3 months.

In the other the woman was about 38, lesbian with partner, used sperm from a gay friend, I think they got pregnant within 2 months.

But despite all these older women getting pregnant, it’s not a risk worth taking if you really want to have children.

And children do need fathers. Things don’t always work out how we plan, but there is more chance if one is involved from day 1.

“Most likely, that’s not what he’s arguing. I hear plenty of “children need fathers” rhetoric, but when you drill down to specifics all the speaker really means by that is “we need a father for his money”. They certainly don’t mean that a father is necessary for his parental role.”
Are you sure or are you projecting? I don’t know where you live, but in the UK, everyone’s always railing for it and they don’t mean for money. The Daily Mail with its majority female readers, the Telegraph with its majority male readers, the government, even a prominent TV newsreader (not whilst reading the news though lol).

41 Bob Smith October 14, 2010 at 4:55 am

“The end of anonymous sperm donation in the UK was not linked to sperm donators possibly having to pay child support. It was to do with the rights of the child to know their biological parents”

You are wrong. One is the precursor of the other. Sperm donors are not required to pay child support because the law forbids it. They are not required to because they are anonymous. Sperm creates strict liability. If you can be proved to be the father, you can be ordered to pay child support, no matter how the woman acquired your sperm. Ergo, if the child has the right the know who the sperm donor is, the mother gains the right to demand child support from him.

42 Bob Smith October 14, 2010 at 5:01 am

“Are you sure or are you projecting? I don’t know where you live, but in the UK, everyone’s always railing for it and they don’t mean for money”

Sure they do. Don’t listen to what they say, watch what they do when men want to parent against the wishes of the mother. They always backpedal and come up with a reason why the idea won’t work. A man who is a parent only when and how the mother desires isn’t a parent, he’s an indentured servant.

43 Lily October 14, 2010 at 10:30 am

@Bob
“You are wrong. One is the precursor of the other.”

It is not the case in the UK. As long as the sperm donation is done through a licensed clinic the donor has no legal rights over the child and no legal or financial responsibilities towards the child. If it’s not done through a clinic, you need to get the necessary legal documents drawn up by solicitors.

I know this for a fact (though not personal experience lol), I don’t go around writing on the internet about things I know nothing about. I am sure you can easily look it up online.

“Don’t listen to what they say, watch what they do when men want to parent against the wishes of the mother. ”
We were actually talking about fathers presence/ involvement in children’s lives rather than fathers wishing to parent *against the desires of a mother*.

But on your strawman, I think many have this perception, I certainly did a couple of years ago, but actually it’s not the case in the UK.

44 Bob Smith October 14, 2010 at 8:25 pm

“As long as the sperm donation is done through a licensed clinic the donor has no legal rights over the child and no legal or financial responsibilities towards the child.”

If true, that’s subject to change. In fact, I’d call it quite likely to change. Sperm donors aren’t generally idiots, they can see the writing on the wall. That’s why they’ve stopped donating.

“We were actually talking about fathers presence/ involvement in children’s lives rather than fathers wishing to parent *against the desires of a mother*.”

What’s the difference? *Everybody* agrees that if mom wants you to be dad, you can. That’s why I said those clamoring for more male involvement in parenting only want money. If they really wanted men *as parents*, they’d support it regardless of what mom wants. They generally don’t.

45 Lily October 14, 2010 at 9:24 pm

It is true. You can verify it. Frankly, I find it quite astonishing that someone who doesn’t actually know says things like ‘if true’ or ‘you’re wrong’.

Being subject to change is your opinion. Are you the head of Hefa? Are you the Minister for Children and Families? Are you Lord President of the Privvy Council? Are you David Cameron?

If the law changed, then obviously sperm donors could make their minds up then. However, it is *extremely* unlikely that any law like this would be applied retrospectively.

And as I already said, sperm donations are now back up. Any current shortage is due to catching up before people understood the changes and the profile of sperm donators changed.

The typical profile of the current sperm donor is more likely to be older men (who often already have children) than younger men, this type of men are more likely to not generally be ‘idiots’, non?

You said ‘mom’ so most likely you live in the US. Your laws are different, it’s not even the same across the country. I’m sorry if this is the case where you live and I’m sorry you have personally had a bad experience.

However, I’m getting the impression from your posts that you are not very bright (nothing wrong with that if you don’t bandy around phrases like ‘you’re wrong’) or have an extremely closed mind.

And with that, I give up. I thought blog commenting was about sharing information, giving different view points and discussing stuff to increase everyone’s knowledge, but I really have better things to do with my time than discussions like this.

If anyone else is reading, just to clarify what I said on Down’s Syndrome my wording wasn’t clear on the maternal age (I type fast and don’t check back enough), it is as Mark said.

46 lushfun December 6, 2010 at 12:28 am

Awesome thank you… been reading your blog for the past 4 hours or so great stuff.

47 lushfun December 6, 2010 at 12:54 am

for every year past the age of 32 the chance of child having developmental problems (down synd + other stuff) increase by about 2%…

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