Diligent reader Steve T. emailed me this proposal:
Hey, FB.
I’m having an online discussion with a nice married woman about men and what they want. She’s been indoctrinated with The Rules as the key for all women to land a man, and I want to disabuse her of such foolishness. I made the following comment:
“Males in general want to fornicate with as many women as they can, preferably beautiful and elegant women, but the priority is the volume and variety of sweaty coupling.”
I started to wonder: what is the breakpoint? If offered wanton debauchery with 5 beautiful, elegant women OR 10 Nikki Blonskys, males in general (eliminating the demented, filthy outliers) would pick the 5 over the 10, hands down. But what if we fiddle with the variables? What about 3 vs. 15? 2v s. 20? 1 vs. 40? Do men value quality over quantity OR quantity over quality, and if so, what is the sectio aureaof masculine depravity, the ideal ratio of porker vs. pulcritude?
I propose the above conundrum as a topic of discussion for the revolting denizens of your blog. I expect that most will automatically weasel the debate by turning this into an AND question: that males will tag as many beauties as they can, and suffer as many rhinos as they must to satiate their lusts. I cast my veto on that approach: the question before this House is, what number of trolls would it take to forgo what number of beauties?
What do you think of my proposal? Thanks!
Now this is…interesting.
All men would like to shag as many hotties as they can – this is axiomatic. And all things being equal, men WOULD go for as many hotties as they could. But all things are NOT equal, and these pesky little factors keep popping up:
Effort. Most guys don’t have the fame or game to pull hotties on a regular basis, despite their claims to the contrary. If you feel like mailing it in, a fugly is your best bet. And even if you’re paying for the pussy, you’ve only got so much cash in your stash.
Scale. When we bring in the 1-10 metric of female attractiveness, things get murky. Do 40 4s beat 15 7s? Are 30 5s better than 1 10? These are the questions we should be asking ourselves.
Skill. While it’s true that female sexual skill is massively overrated, there are some things, such as the sacred art of the blowjob, that take practice to refine. A hotter chick is less likely to have perfected these talents because she doesn’t need them – her beauty is enough to coast on. An enthusiastic, freaky 6 may just beat out a limp 8.
Supply. There are only so many Kim Kardashians to go around, and if you live in the U.S., their numbers are thinning (heh) every day. Barring moving to a new country, eventually you’ll have to start dumpster diving, or at least skimming.
Therefore, I poseth these questions before you all: do men value quantity or quality? What is the ideal mix of variety and beauty? And as Steve phrases it, “what number of troll would it take to forgo what number of beauties”?
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Is the knowledge that if I dumpster dive I’m going to have to share with all the other guys who do that keeps me in my search of beauty.
Funny how I was just thinking about this for the last couple of weeks. I am guilty of dumpster diving, I admit it but my ways are changing. Itțs hard for most guys to resist that 2 in the morning booty call from a fling (most flings are 2-3 points below your market value) and pursue the hot young girl by day.
It’s not about quantity imo, it’s more about convenience.
I would also point out that if you are talking about marriage, you would do well as a man to look at how the women in her family age. A freaky 6 who stays a 6 until she’s 50-60 (by that I mean she’s a “6″ by the standards of people your age at the very least) is far more valuable than a limp 8 who will become a 6. It’s like one stock which will keep paying a 4% dividend for 20 years versus one that’ll pay 6% for 10 then crash and burn on its payments.
It probably varies by man and by the hormone levels and environment of that man at any one time.
Prior experience probably plays a role as well. As my notch count has gone up, my propensity to dumpster dive has gone down.
A man who has not slept with a girl that makes him go “WOW” on first sight will not know the real danger in slumming it.
I am guilty of slumming it after a long dry streak, or in case she was just there available for me, with my only investment being the time it would take to say “let’s go”. (And what I call a troll is a definite “yea would date her” for many men out there)
The damage taken from this is that for some time after the dumpster dive, your self worth diminishes, as you will have this nagging thought “this is the best I can do”
After having my lessons, even if they are as few as they are, there is one conclusion: Do not invest and dive.
Very rarely, you might slum it if there is zero investment, but you must keep in mind that you are diving precisely because there is no investment. Have to set the context right.
Still, it is better not to dive, even if it is to end a dry streak. The dry streak will not hit your self worth as much as being touched by a troll.
So in conclusion: Banging any number of trolls = risk for continuing to bang only troll, and risk of never being able to do better. This is like the nuclear waste barrel which has a ton of metal chains attached to it, going down the ocean.
Banging attractive women that make you go “uhm” = It only gets better. It is the indestructible space shuttle with infinite fuel.
So why aim for the nuclear wasteland of lifeless ocean bottom when you could be exploring the beauties of the universe?
I’m not sure I agree that 6s give better head than 8s. Who is getting the head looms large. Problem is, 8s are less likely to want to be sucking my beta cock than 6s. If you’re Derek Jeter and every chick in America wants to suck your cock, I suspect that there is no difference.
Even though I’m no Derek Jeter, I’ve gotten some pretty good head from hot chicks. When I upgraded by look in my late 30s, I even started having hot chicks deciding to rim my ass.
I also think that these days, chicks who maintain hotness are, in part, driven by love of sex, and the hotter the chick, the more into sex shes is.
Finally, for a payah (my word for john) like me, there really isn’t much of a trade-off for quantity vs. quality. Its more like, do I want to do 5 8s for $1250, or 5 6s for $1000.
Give me the five 8s. I’d rather go surfing with my buddies than bang a troll.
Fact is, if all you’ve got are trolls you’re doing something wrong and need to fix that. Priorities.
A few thoughts:
Most men are not partner maximizers.
There is such a thing as male mate choice.
Below a 6 what’s the point?
The value of a girl goes up exponentially from 5-7. It goes up quite bit from 7-9 and then levels off from 9-10.
Overall, I guess I’m a quality guy.
This is a question that can’t really be answered as everyone will be different.
As someone who would rate himself as a 6 going a few points below that would make me feel physically sick so it’s a win-win situation for me, however as someone who is just starting out his gaming career even if I pulled 5 x 10′s I would still think it a fluke and bang a 6 the next day.
Suppose you could put it down to self worth.
My own view is that you can go for your ideal- provided your ideal differs from what most men want.
My own priorities are..
1. Sanity.
2. Personality.
3. Looks. I have deliberately cultivated a taste in ‘interesting’ looks. This does not mean classically beautiful but it means an interesting face with character. I am not interested in impressing other men with my women.
If your ’10′ is different from mine then we can both have a ’10′!
It is interesting to think about this. It must be highly variable, as any guy with a high sex drive knows, at times we have all dumpster dived to keep ourselves tamed. The funniest guys are the ones who say they have never done it, but I guarantee their notch count is probably 3, unless they are famous.
I’m a believer of ‘working up the ranks’, I see learning game as a long term investment with the attractiveness of the girls for the most part increasing as skill goes up.
Another question “inspired” by that picture of a blob in a superhero costume:
Prior to the age of effortlessly accessible internet porn (let alone the age of Playboy), how many guys who now resort to porn, would have chosen the likes of that thing in the pic?
There comes a point, where “none of the above” is actually preferrable for men.
I think there is a world of difference between a 9 or 10 and an average looking woman. The former open our perception and give us glimpses of the surreal. The rest are usually opportunity-based or something to fill in the time.
The question of whether I would prefer a few hotties over a dozen averages depends mainly on the effort involved, and opportunity. When the competition is high, or when one isn’t motivated to do the work, chasing the goddesses isn’t worth the effort. So we settle for a warm place to hang our log.
protip: Most guys just want to settle down with a plain loyal girl.
Guys who have no standards, or guys who want an ego trip go out and try to bang/make out with as many women as possible, but that is not what they really want. You think it’s alpha to lower your standards? You think it’s alpha to be banging a fat chick compared to someone who looks for more quality? LOL.
Ferd,
I believe I’ve stumbled onto a cheat code: Bariatric Game.
1. Relationship Game a morbidly obese young woman with a pretty face, a small frame, and a rich dad. These rate at about a 2 or a 3 on the market. Just be sure she’s truly obese and not merely chubby or “raw-boned”. Check the wrists and rib cages for quality assurance.
2. Persuade her dad to cough up the co-pay for her to have Bariatric Surgery. Emphasize that you support this for her health.
3. PROFIT!
Speaking from personal experience, the largest number of women you can date at the same time is about 3, more generally 2 if you care to be doing anything but dealing with women. You can have other ones on the side, ones in different cities or whatever, but those are defacto booty calls, and they’re going to be boning other dudes: effectively, they’re just free hookers.
For myself, 1 or 2 at once is pretty ideal, punctuated by the occasional side bet. Of course, in the long term, this adds up to, well, hundreds, but the idea of porking 10 whales simply for variety’s sake is ridiculous. I don’t think I could physiologically have sex with any part of the beast you put a photo up of, let alone 10 of them. The efficient frontier is one or two hot ones at once, with the occasional straying: much like the French and Italians do.
Hollywood dipshits who maintain stables of 3 or more at once (a la Heffner) are being silly and juvenile. It’s possible to do this, but … unless you have no interests other than sticking your dick in a woman, you’d be crazy to try to maintain this as a lifestyle. Personally, there are times in my life when I want to be around 0 women.
@Matt Parrott:
My brother is doing Bariatric Game, though he actually got in after the surgery. Here are the plusses and minuses:
Plusses:
1. Her father bought them a half-million dollar house
2. He hasn’t really worked in about 3 years.
3. She makes more than $100K.
Minuses:
1. excess skin
2. her ass has, from what I understand, been leaky and dysfunctional, culminating in colon cancer (almost certainly caused by obesity) and apparently-successful (unfortunately) chemo
3. the house is in her father’s name.
4. she’s a psycho, which probably explains how she let herself weigh 350 in the first place.
5. she yells at him for not doing more work around the house, and hassles him about getting a job.
OK, I’ll be the outlier here as usual. I have only had one woman (my wife) for over twenty years. I have no need to “dumpster dive”. I have had every sex act I wanted from her. I keep hearing of new sex acts, and I mostly decide not to bother, often for moral reasons.
Recently I decided to get my wife to suck my cock before we have sex. She is not terribly good at it, but she does her best. Her amateur efforts amuse me, and we are learning together what I enjoy most.
The advantages of one woman only: far less social and other risks. Only one crazy bitch to deal with. Also, if you like dominating women, which I do, there is nothing like having a woman who sucks your cock and irons your shirts.
I am not quite sure how to put this, but Colin Wilson once wrote that one woman can give a man more over time than any number of random women. If a man has deflowered a girl, impregnated her, watched her give birth to his children, watched her cook his meals and hang out his washing, had her use his name, and watched her suck his cock and spread her legs for him, that is a lot of what life can give.
I think on the numeric scale, at the top end each number is worth about twice as much as the preceding number.
a 10 is worth two 9′s
a 9 is worth five 8′s
But then it changes…
an 8 is worth five 7′s
a 7 is worth five 6′s
And then…oh I’m sorry, I don’t even attempt to game any lower than a 6.
Bottom line; quantity is a hugely important metric, but I (and most guys) probably have more respect for the guy who bags one or two 9′s per year than the guy that gets fifteen 5′s. Below a certain threshold (5), all you need to do to get laid is show up and make any move; above a certain threshold (7), you need to show up, look good, run your best game and hope for success.
the question is interesting.
we can express our answer by assigning value units to the experience of sex with girls of various degrees of hotness.
i’d say sex with a <=5 is no better than no sex. for a virgin teenager it's better than no sex, but not for a man who's had a good share of sexual experience with attractive women. so sex with a <5 has no value to me: 0.
sex with 7s and 8s is bread and butter, 1 value unit per affair with a new woman.
sex with a 6 is unnecessary. i'd say 0.1 value units — that hardly ever beats the costs of time and energy involved.
sex with a 9 or 10 has very high value. why? i guess because of two factors: (1) it is a rarer pleasure. (2) it's less easily forgotten and self-relevant as it contributes to self-mythology. i'd say 5-8 value units.
so for sex with a 10 i might conceivably forgo sleeping with 8 8s — quite a commitment.
by the way, this only makes sense to me if sex is defined as something like "a mutually satisfying affair over a period of time". a drunken one-night-stand with a 10, does not top 8 affairs with 8 different 8s. also: the value unit of 1 for an 8 is per affair with a new woman, a single pop is worth much less.
note that, although interesting, the question is largely academic: in real life, we are not faced with such choices. in any slice of time, we'll choose the hottest woman we can get.
hmmm, perhaps a commitment ultimatum from a hot woman in love with us comes close to presenting a choice like this in real life.
When you’re just now starting to get laid – QUANTITY
When you’ve banged a lot of women – QUALITY
When I first started screwing a lot of women of women, I chased them. Now that I know I can get laid whenever I want, I make them chase me.
I like your style finndistan.
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