When I was in college, the spot where all the students went to party was a dumpy house not far from the campus called 35 Main* for its street address. It was a “party house” targeted specifically at underage college students looking to get drunk and mingle. The place was run quite professionally – a bouncer charged you five dollars to enter, and the kegmaster charged another five if you wanted to drink, all-you-could-chug so long as you held on to your plastic cup. To dissuade cops looking to bust young drunkards, the bouncer actively discouraged loitering outside, telling offenders to “keep moving.” The inside of 35 Main wasn’t too impressive, consisting of just a tiny foyer, a little living room, a kitchen (complete with beer pong table), and a side room used mostly by potheads and partygoers looking for peace and quiet. Still, the promise of alcohol for minors ensured that the place was packed every weekend. And it was there that I met one of the stranger girls I’ve ever known, not so much because she was strange, but because of the circumstances surrounding what she was.
It was a Saturday night and I had managed to swipe a seat on one of the couches in the living room, having been separated from my friends by the tight-as-sardines crowd. Next to me was an bored-looking girl dressed in jeans and a tank top. Fueled by liquid courage, I opened my mouth.
Ferdinand Bardamu (smirking): Gee, you look excited to be here.
Girl: Heh. You’d be mad too if your friends had up and vanished.
FB: My friends HAVE vanished. Looks like we’ve got something in common.
We hit it off from there. Her name was Stacy* and she was from Ohio (or “Ah-hi-ah,” as she pronounced it in her cutesy hick accent), from a small town along the Ohio River across the border from West Virginia. A freshman majoring in Communications, she was a 6 rounded down – cute if oddly flat face, a distracting gap between her two front teeth, short brown hair, B-cups and a bit of a tummy, and a flat ass like most non-obese white girls. Thirty minutes later, after our friends had run into us, I convinced her to move to the side room for some privacy.
It was about a little less than an hour in, when she was drinking beer from my cup (she had lost hers) and laughing at my bad jokes, when things started to get weird.
S: So, what’s the wildest thing to happen to you sexually?
FB (caught off-guard, BSing): Um…I don’t really do that sort of thing anymore. What kind of guy do you think I am?
S: Oh, I slept with lots of guys back home in Ohio. I’ve got some great stories, like the guy I had sex with in my parents’ backyard.
FB (shocked): …Wait, what?
S: Oh yeah, I love having sex. I’ve got a vibrator I use all the time, but it just isn’t the same.
That should have been red flag number one. Talkers aren’t doers. My gut feelings of unease with a girl I barely knew openly talking about sex were overpowered by my ignorant, foolish thoughts of, “Oh yeah, this chick is a real freak! I’m gonna get laid tonight!” I was smart enough to not get all puppy-dog excited, but I ignored the flashing lights in front of me.
Somehow, I managed to not fuck up with Stacy long enough to start kissing her. An hour-and-a-half in, I persuaded her to come to my dorm to show her the nice view of Lake Champlain I had from my bedroom window. Fifteen minutes later, we were back at my eighth-floor room, where one thing lead to another and we started making out. We fell atop my bed, and Stacy paused to ask, ”Could you get the light?”
That should have been red flag number two. In my experience, high-mileage women don’t care whether the lights are on or not, but I didn’t know that then. I just reached behind me to switch off the lamp.
We kept at it, Stacy pressing my head back into my filthy pillows as she pulled her top off and I slipped out of my shirt. I got lucky by unhooking her bra from behind on the first try and she started fumbling with my belt buckle. This was it. I unclasped my belt and started wriggling out of my pants. She grabbed my trouser snake, which was poised and ready to strike. Omigod omigod omigod I’m gonna fuck her oh hell yeah omigod…
…and then she started yanking on my dick. Not sliding her hand up and down in the gentle-but-firm motion that every man makes when masturbating and expects girls to do the same, but tugging at it like she was a gardener trying to pull a flower out of the ground. And my eyes, slowly adjusting to the darkness, could see a twinge of disgust in her face. Something was wrong.
After about a minute of her trying to rip off the outer layer of my skin, I pushed her hand away saying, “I-I think I’ll just finish it myself.” My erection was deflating like a balloon being stomped on by a fat kid. “I think we should just…let me see yours.”
“Okay.” Stacy undid her belt and slid her pants off. As she pulled down her panties, I stifled a gag. This girl had the thickest, gnarliest bush I’d ever seen in my life. Even with the tiny amount of light streaming in under the door, I could tell she had a regular forest growing down there. Ungroomed, unshaved, untouched. I have an allergic reaction to that much bush and what was left of my boner was sounding the retreat. Suddenly, I put two and two together.
FB: You lied to me.
S (shocked, offended): What?
FB (sitting up): You’ve never had sex before. You’ve probably never even touched a cock before.
S: No! I’ve fucked dozen of guys…
FB (cutting her off): You don’t know how to give a handjob. You don’t shave. Admit it – you’re a virgin.
S: I don’t know WHAT your problem is…
FB (getting angry, grabbing her shoulder): Are you a virgin?
S: (suddenly sheepish): A guy went down on me last month…
FB (yelling, looking her in the eye): Answer the question! Has a guy put his penis in your vagina or not?
S (after an awkward pause): …No…
With her confession, my mind was officially blown. I leaned back against the wall, my anger giving way to befuddlement.
FB: So all that stuff you talked about back at the party? Is any of it true?
(She shook her head.)
FB: But why, Stacy? If you’re a virgin, why lie about being a slut?
S: (looking at the floor): I…I don’t know. None of the guys I meet here want to see me after I tell them I’m a virgin. I wanted you to like me…
FB: Have you gone out with ANY guys?
S: I had a boyfriend in high school. We went out for two years and kissed a lot, but we never had sex.
If it wasn’t for my inexperience with girls and repulsion at her tangled undergrowth, I might have tried to salvage this into a notch. But I was a total jackass in college and I felt cheated. Instead of getting the wild slut who would do all sorts of crazy shit that I expected, I had a girl who couldn’t even jerk me off right. And my erection had completely vacated the battlefield at this point.
FB (resigned): I-I think you should leave.
S: Could you at least walk me…
FB: No. Just get the hell out.
She dressed herself in silence and left. I never saw her again.
…
I was inspired to share this story for two reasons. The first was reading this post of Sofia’s. The second was a phone conversation I had with my mother over the weekend. My youngest sister, Claire*, is off to college next month and had just come home from her orientation. My mom was worried that some douchebag would take advantage of her last baby bird now that she would be leaving the nest.
Mom: You think she’s going to be fine at college?
Ferdinand Bardamu: Mom, Claire is a geek. She’s into anime and video games, she doesn’t dress like a girl, she doesn’t like going to parties, and her idea of a fun Saturday night is playing BioShock alone on her laptop. She’s a Computer Science major for God’s sake! She’ll be fine.
M: Guys aren’t going to try to, you know…
FB: College guys typically try to get with girls who are hot and look like they’ll put out. A shy, glasses-wearing tomboy doesn’t exactly scream “hot and easy.”
M: What about her male friends? Won’t they try to sleep with her?
FB: Those nerds she hangs out with? They won’t even have the nerve to ask her out! You didn’t worry like this when Cécile went to college!
M: I don’t know, Ferd. Guys were always trying to take advantage of girls when I was Claire’s age (my mom was in college in the early 70′s, the height of the Sexual Revolution), but if you say so…
FB: Mom, listen to me. The girls who “get taken advantage of” put themselves in that position. Claire isn’t going to do that and you know it.
Only a fool thinks the girls he picks up for one-night stands are innocent, chaste things being defiled by his rakish dong. If she’s willing to go home with you after only a couple hours and a few drinks, chances are she’s had her own share of bedroom adventures. It’s not like it matters – you’re looking for a night of carnal ecstasy, not The One. In fact, a slutty chick is preferable to a virgin if quick sex is what you want, since she’ll be more likely to both give it up and do fun stuff in bed, like A2M. But occasionally you end up as that one in a million, the guy who takes home a angel who dances with the devil.
I never did find out what happened to Stacy. Maybe another guy who didn’t mind excessive pubic hair took her virginity in the same way I almost did. Maybe she straightened herself out and found herself a meek nice guy with slack wrists. Maybe my freakout screwed her up for good. A small part of me hopes she had a happy ending, but I’m not that naive. There is no god or karma to punish the wicked and reward the just – there is only the universe, which is amoral and turns a deaf ear to the suffering of the good and the triumphs of the evil.
All I know is that sheep shouldn’t pretend to be wolves.
{ 49 comments… read them below or add one }
Great post. Very honest. This is exactly the way a lot of college-age guys feel.
She would probably have been better off with someone a bit older.
A question or two. Would it have made a difference if
(a) she had been honest with you from the beginning?
[I would have said goodbye and gone to find another girl. - ed.]
(b) the personal grooming issue was not involved.
[I would have probably tried to have sex with her, discovered that she was rather vanilla, and kicked her to the curb after I was done with her.]
PS: as I’m sure you’ve discovered since, sexual experience & pubic grooming are not necessarily correlated.
PPS: I’m sure Mr Vincent Ignatius will have something to say on this post. I look forward to hearing his views.
“The girls who “get taken advantage of†put themselves in that position.”…”Only a fool thinks the girls he picks up for one-night stands are innocent, chaste things being defiled by his rakish dong.”
You’ve obviously never been to a Bachelor and Spinster Ball at a country town mid West NSW. A combination of Grog, Girlfriend Goading and Ganga will make any girls do things that they regret.
[You just proved my point. You need to GO to the Bachelor and Spinster Ball in order to make a mistake of that order. - ed.]
It’s not a matter of Game just the scientific facts. Copious amounts of Red Red wine has performed miracles from long before Cana and they never fail to perform their tricks time and time again.
It’s not called a Bottle of Leg Opener (in a French accent) for nothing. This post surprises me Ferd. I’d be re-advising your mum, if I was you, before it’s too late.
[I may not have adequately conveyed how much of a homebody my little sister is, or how introverted she is. I know her as well as an older brother can, and I can say with confidence that she's unlikely to end up as Freddy the Frat Boy's ninth notch. I wouldn't have told my mom otherwise. I would worry more about my other sister, who is both more sociable and actively tries to court men, though nothing has happened to her either. My folks raised their kids right.]
LMAO at this. Even girls with some experience usually give crappy handjobs, a virgin is going to practically pull the damn thing off.
Even in undergrad I would have been nicer than you were, but I still wouldn’t have banged her. If I know a girl isn’t LTR quality for me, I won’t take her virginity.
I actually might have tried to teach that girl a few things so she wouldn’t end up losing her virginity that way. That’s definitely what I would do now. I’d explain to her that her virginity was the most valuable thing she had so she shouldn’t throw it away on some drunk asshole like me.
A girl back in high school talked the slut talk and made it seem like she wanted my loving penetration. She wasn’t all that, but she was cute enough to bang so I made her my girlfriend. After working on her for a bit, I found out she was actually a virgin. I broke up with her because I didn’t want to take her virginity. She hated me afterwards.
Peter GNP is going to be very upset with you.
Reading in between the lines of your post and the two commenters so far is there a Game ethic where you don’t fuck virgins? I wasn’t aware of that.
[Nothing to do with game, everything to do with how American college guys are. Younger guys and students will eschew virgins and prudish girls because they're looking for the hottest, spiciest sex with the least amount of effort. I'm not the first one to note that college guys will refuse to screw virgins, and I won't be the last. - ed.]
On that score, is there an ethical base to Game?
[Game is a tool and thus morally neutral. It is as evil or good as the practitioner makes it. This is what makes it both powerful and problematic.]
Ferdinand, what are you teaching your sister Claire about guys?
[Same thing I told my other sister - guys primarily want to get in her pants, so she shouldn't make it easy for them. That includes not drinking to excess (easier said then done in Claire's case, since she's so thin and small the mere whiff of alcohol will get her buzzed), not giving in to demands for sex from any boyfriends, not walking alone at night, and not getting involved with bums and shiftless jackasses with no redeeming character flaws (i.e. would you show this guy off to your parents), and the like. A lot of this was (and is) being covered by my parents, so that plus her natural introvertedness (and unfeminine way she presents herself) gives me confidence that she'll be fine. - ed.]
Pat, I can’t speak for anyone else, but I wouldn’t fuck a virgin for a few reasons, but mainly I don’t want to be accused of raping her.
i didn’t lie about my total number count!!!! and i only upped the OTHER number by one because it was believable, AND i rectified the lie in a few weeks. wah.
You need to GO to the Bachelor and Spinster Ball in order to make a mistake of that order.
Right, so.
I’m gladdened to hear that Gamers, as such, won’t fuck virgins. However, I still think you need to urge your little sister to beware of red wine as it’s a subtle drop that lulls many, even a quiet one, suddenly, into things that they regret.
[I'll keep it in mind. Thanks. - ed.]
I don’t want to bring this whole post down, and ignore me if I do, but isn’t it sad, well it makes me feel disturbed, that men and women should have come to this?
[Very sad. I made my peace with the state of things a long time ago, but I still have some lingering anger over how the world is. It's part of the reason why mainstream game/PUA bloggers piss me off. - ed.]
I read “A girl back in high school talked the slut talk and made it seem like she wanted my loving penetration. She wasn’t all that, but she was cute enough to bang so I made her my girlfriend. After working on her for a bit, I found out she was actually a virgin. I broke up with her because I didn’t want to take her virginity. She hated me afterwards.” and I can’t help but think that you, we, are blaming girls for things and circumstances that have been inflicted upon us.
[I can only speak for myself, but I don't blame women for anything. When it comes to a personal story like this, I try to refrain from making such judgments because I want my readers to arrive at their own conclusions. If there's a point I wanted to make, it's that the relations between the sexes have deteriorated to the point where these sorts of things happen. It's pure tragedy in the Shakespearian sense, where we are all forced to play roles that lead to our own misfortune.]
I know there are sluts out there but I also know that there are cunts, of the male variety, that are equally deserving of approbation and annihilation. I said to Roissy via Mangans some time ago that if I ever caught some Gamer like him with my daughter I’d cave his fucking teeth in with half a house brick. I stand by that.
[As you should. I basically wrote the same thing about him months ago - he's a genius, but he's fucked in the head. I took some flak from his fanboys for saying that. The fact that he's allowed to do what he does is a symptom of how far we have fallen. He's admitted this more than once.
I've been itching to write a post on how fathers like you can teach your girls to safeguard themselves from the Roissys of the world, but I'm divided on whether to post it here or at the Spearhead, where more people will read it. In the meantime, here's a blog on the subject I highly recommend.]
But, my reading of Gaming blogs like this is that men are so bereft of, something, and that women are so gone to seed that the whole scene is broken. Is that the genesis of Game, that the current milieu is broken?
[The modern incarnation of game, the culture of pick-up and barhopping? Yes. The only choices we have as men are to deal with it (the game option) or drop out of dating entirely (called "ghosting" by MGTOW writers - google "MGTOW manifesto" sans quotes for more).
Keep in mind Pat that the game bloggers like myself who interface with right-wing bloggers like yourself (and basically agree with you) are in the minority. The majority of game bloggers - the seduction community, folks like Mystery and Neil Strauss who pioneered the modern study of attracting women - don't give a thought to any of this. Roissy, for better or for worse, basically started this whole thing of combining the science of seduction with broader commentary on the state of the West, which is why I coined the term "Roissysphere" to describe this emerging awareness.]
Kinda related, but for an Australian to watch your movies it seems like a horror scene over there in terms of human relations. Are your movies generally representative of the American scene or is it some distortion?
[On a surface level, it is a distortion. Hollywood has a reputation for skewing everything to fit their leftist agenda. The gestalt, on the other hand, is horrifyingly true. The culture here is completely toxic.]
Good Lord, I just read my last comment and realised I may come across as some sort of puritan wagging his finger, excoriating dancing as a gift of the devil. I don’t mean to.
But I am genuinely concerned with the state of things.
I certainly don’t wish to come across as some sort of millenarian fanaticist predicting the end of mankind, exterminated for their sins, but I am wanting to understand Game.
Pat Hannagan wrote:
On that score, is there an ethical base to Game?
Yes. It has the same ethical base as Niccolo Machiavelli’s book “The Prince”. But so does Dale Carnegie’s book “How To Win Friends And Influence People”. In other words, the principles of human psychology can be used ethically, but are amoral in themselves.
You should have salvaged the virgin lay by hooking her bush up with your razor. That way you wouldn’t have let fresh pussy go to waste. But if she was only a 6, then it’s a moot point.
Ferdinand, you should be more wary. I would have said the exact same thing about my youngest sister, up until last week.
[What changed your mind, swineherd? - ed.]
I know there are sluts out there but I also know that there are cunts, of the male variety, that are equally deserving of approbation and annihilation. I said to Roissy via Mangans some time ago that if I ever caught some Gamer like him with my daughter I’d cave his fucking teeth in with half a house brick. I stand by that.
__________________________________________
Way to hold your entitled bitch daughter responsible for her own actions daddy incest. This is why I fuck girls like your daughter using a set of anonymity precautions which make it impossible for dipshits like you to find me even if you wanted to.
ps: your daughter is a whore.
[I'd admonish you for this, but it's blatantly obvious you're just trolling to get a rise out of Pat, so I'll just give you a Double Facepalm and urge him not to feed the troll. - ed.]
ferdi, stick to outing entitled bitches and exposing their incest buddy fathers like Pat and keep your moralizing sermons to a whisper. If I wanted more “the problem with men today is…” I’ll just turn to the lamestream media, thanks.
[I'll do what I want boy, and you'll LIKE it. - ed.]
Back in college, i would not have taken her virginity either.
Today, I am not sure, what I would do.
The great irony is, the more success you have with women, the more you become jaded at the entire process. That isn’t to say, if you have zero success, that you won’t grow to be jaded as well.
Fucked if you fuck, and fucked if you don’t.
You use “…anonymity precautions…”? Fuck me but I’m struggling to take Game seriously.
That B&S Ball I mentioned, mate, it’s not a struggle to get laid. You want to fuck women you could go to just about any city pub in Sydney and if you don’t walk out with some bit of fluff then you’d be walking out with a bloke who’d give you the same.
What, you need a slide rule to calculate your options? I’m not protecting my daughter so much as I’m wondering what the fuck is so wrong with dickheads like yourself that you need to study how to get a root. I think that’s one of the major fascinations I have with Game. That what I thought was deadset fucking easy, like a walk in the park, is something you need to study.
I don’t go out without my family much except when on work trips. Last time I travelled to the Northern Territory and within a beer’s sip at Kakadu there was this, sweet girl, aching for a fuck. I was sorely tempted but thank God, when I awoke I was alone.
Now I’m not bragging. I’m not belittling anything here. But what for me was a temptation to fight off you seem to be struggling to get in to. Yet here you are telling me my daughter’s a whore?
FFS mate. You can aspire to be an earthworm for all I care, that’s your decision. But, if you’re after a root and it’s such a big problem maybe you should just take up drinking and go visit a pub.
But really, I was trying to engage in something a bit higher than the level of your dick.
[Just ignore that guy, man. He's baiting you into fighting him. Never feed the trolls. - ed.]
Just ignore that guy, man. He’s baiting you into fighting him. Never feed the trolls.
Ah, sure Ferdinand, I appreciate that. I understand the modus operandi of baiting. I did work in pubs, clubs and bars for several years and have gone outside to be the recipient of a beating or to inflict one.
But there is this aspect of Game that suggests that what it’s really about is an anger with the world rather than the inability to get a root. I don’t believe, or find it hard to believe, that men are finding it hard to have sex. I’ve probably got it wrong and that it’s not the quantity but the quality that is sought, in which case I understand that men like Carlo are embittered that they have to make do with the dregs and need to study to go further up the food chain.
[It depends. Some guys get into it because they can't get laid and they want to crack the code. Others because they want to "go further up the food chain" as you put it. Some want to have more sex but on their terms. Others just want to get girlfriends, and a growing contingent of guys are interested in strengthening their marriages. - ed.]
As Carlo says, I don’t want to appear like one of those “the problem with men today is…†types. I’m just dumbstruck that there’s this big problem. I wonder if it’s an American problem or a general one. Somehow I’ve blinked and the whole world got inverted.
[I'd say that it's a general problem that flares up in certain areas more than others. I'm not surprised that you're surprised - on the few occasions I've tried to explain this to folks of my parents' generation or older, I just get blank stares. In many ways getting laid isn't as hard as many of these guys make it out to be - their own mental handicaps are part of the problem. If you want a primer on the modern dating culture, I recommend these essays by F. Roger Devlin:
http://dontmarry.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/sexualutopia.pdf
http://dontmarry.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/rotating.pdf
http://www.thornwalker.com/ditch/devlin_shalit.htm
You should also read Roissy's analysis of the articles:
http://roissy.wordpress.com/2008/07/23/decivilizing-human-nature-unleashed/ ]
I’m surprised your younger sister is so introverted given I don’t get the same feeling from you.
[Though many conflate introvertedness with shyness when the two are correlated, but surely not identical.]
[I'm a bit introverted, but given the way I've lived my life, being shy isn't an option. - ed.]
Finding out she’s a tramp. It seems both of my sisters are, and that my wife had been hiding this from me.
[Oh.
Well, if my sisters are tramps, they've hidden it so cleverly and so well I'll have to personally congratulate them on it. And it's kinda difficult to defend the virtue of a whore, so the whole wariness thing becomes moot. - ed.]
Note this, female-defenders: all three of these women were raised in strict churchgoing families in conservative cities in Texas. My wife was never promiscuous; she largely agrees with my views on females; and yet she helped keep my sisters’ behavior secret.
I have seen several “introverted girls” in college getting out of the carcass to full on makeup all over due to peer pressure. So yeah.
Ferdinand: Your sister sounds like a catch.
Are “Claire” and “Cecile” names out of Celine also?
[Nope, just French names I pulled from a dictionary. The only decent women in Celine are prostitutes. - ed.]
Why should you care about what happened to Stacy?
And why should you have hopes of a happy ending about her?
She pretended to be a slut, you should have treated her as such. Let her pay the price of her stupidity.
[Well, excuse me for not being a total sociopath. - ed.]
I am no longer convinced that on average, a decent, involved, caring father delays promiscuity or shuts it down in their daughter’s sex lives.
I think broadly speaking, the cultural influence and social mores and opportunity (anonymous promiscuity) are simply too strong. As is the ability to sample male dominance in all its forms.
I can think of far too many examples of women with strong, loving, involved fathers in their lives who yearn for what amounts to serial monogamy with various dominant guys. It is what it is, I think. We cant change it, only live with it.
Amusingly, my college years were my shy, glasses wearing tomboy phase, playing video games all night, reading comics, watching anime, and having a hell of a lot of promiscuous sex.
Of couse, aside from the shy and slutty, part, I still do the rest.
My girlfriend in college *was* a virgin.
How did I know?
She gave handjobs like she was shaking & smacking a bottle of ketchup.
“My wife was never promiscuous”
LOL..and you’re basing this on…? The same woman who hid your sister’s promiscuity from you?
Ouch, Ferdinand. The Stacy story I mean. You probably traumatised her for life by rejecting her because she’s a virgin. She probably became a feminist because of that experience. Nice going, dick.
I was also a jackass in college. Looking back I have grown up a lot since then. But I wouldn’t have been that harsh to a girl even under those circumstances. Even MRA misogynist Snark saves his vitriol for his online opinions. In real life I’m taciturn and demure.
Oh, that’s a fucking great way to meet girls, though. The whole, your friends have vanished, so have mine, what the hell, let’s you and I be friends. I can’t tell you the number of times that’s worked for me. Obviously the circumstances have to allow for it, but when they do it works pretty much every time. That’s a great opener too. “Gee you look really excited to be here.” It’s kind of almost a neg but it’s playful. It has to be delivered right though, in an amused tone and preferably with a cocky grin. Otherwise it could just come across as outright aggressive which would be totally weird. This is where a lot of guys fail I think. They have a great opening line but they choke as they deliver it and it comes across in a flat voice from a straight face. Then it’s just fucking weird and almost seems like a genuine challenge. Thankfully I manage to avoid this trap by being ridiculously overconfident at all times.
The final thing I want to add. Is that your Stacy story also happens in reverse. I once hooked up with this girl who came across as so sweet and innocent. Well, she was to be honest. Not that I have one-itis or anything, but she was just a really sweet girl. The type you don’t run into very often. Gorgeous as well. And unlike you Ferdinand I relish the chance to deflower virgins.
[I do enjoy virgins...now. When I was an immature punktard though, it was all about the ONS. - ed.]
But it quickly became obvious that she knew damn well what she was doing. And she made it clear that she didn’t want me to go talking about what we’d done because she didn’t want the reputation. Ha! Word got out anyway and she didn’t seem to mind.
Oh and now that I think about it I DID once ‘hook up’ with a girl who talked about sex and fucking constantly. To be honest I found it disconcerting but she was acting (and not just talking) slutty specifically to me and you know how it is. The fire in the loins thing. So I ran with it. It turned out to be a pretty terrible experience somewhat similar to yours minus the bush. Except I didn’t shout at her. I just made some lame excuse. As I say Ferdi. Demure and taciturn. You’d be surprised at how that can be used to create an air of mystery. Especially when you drop the “it’s complicated” bombshell in reference to any fucking thing.
Interesting, I’ve never come across a virgin who tried to pretend she was a slut.
All of the girls I meet are usually the opposite, girls who try to downplay how many guys they’ve been with and act like they haven’t slept around when they have….
I sill remember the first chick in college I got naked that had a full bush…. I was like “what the fuck is this shit?” I think I even started to pull on her hairs to see how long they were.
Well, if my sisters are tramps, they’ve hidden it so cleverly and so well I’ll have to personally congratulate them on it.
This is one of the things that annoys me about the “all girls are sluts” camp is that in order for most of the chaste girls I’ve known to be secretly slutting it up they would have to be just incredibly good at hiding it. And by that I mean not just being able to put on a decent performance, but rather full oscar worthy performances. I mean the mask never slips.
I mean women are pretty good at covering things up, but this is nigh supernatural ability to keep things under wraps up is totally inconsistent with my experience with average to loose women. With all the promiscuous or semi-promiscuous girls I’ve known, there were always tells, if they didn’t frankly tell you at least a little bit about what they had been up to.
I screw most women on the second date. Are they all sluts? I don’t think so.
What exactly does promiscuous and slut mean nowadays when 2nd and 3rd date sex is the norm?
21 year olds are ready to fuck on the first date. If you game them right, and you line up the logistics- sex happens almost immediately. I try not to judge nor label. But what is a slut today? Does A 23 year female with 100 partners, or a girl that has been in a gangbang qualify? Most early twenties girls have had more than 10 sexual partners. Esp if they dormed at college. I went out with a 21 year-old recently- If I recall correctly, she had fucked 30men. Anal- check. 3some- check. Times they are ah changing.
The most fucked up thing is: even if you really like the girl, and she makes you wait past 3 dates- you start to wonder if she is (playing) fucking with you.
Or, even worse. She has slotted you for the beta /ljbf slot while she is fucking someone else.
Recently I fucked a girl on the second date- she has many MANY awesome traits. I could have fucked her on date 1 cause we clicked so damn well- I chose not to. If we fucked on date 1 or 3- that would not stop me from making her my girl; if it happens to go that way. The slut thing might be overused and overblown.
There’s got to be a Piece of Advice in all this. Thinking…thinking…
Thanks for the recommendation, Ferdinand. :)
Guess what I’m trying to say is: when everybodies a slut, no one is.
when everybodies a slut, no one is.
The question though is whether every girl is a slut?
Furthermore, let’s break down the logic here. Basically the argument goes “I fucked several girls with a lot of awesome traits on the second date, therefore all girls with awesome traits will fuck a guy like me on the second date.” Anyone else spot the fallacy?
The fact is that most sluts are not without some redeeming virtues. Most don’t come with “maneating bitch” tatooed on their foreheads. They volunteer with kids, they love dogs, or run charity fundraising drives. They’re almost always a lot of fun to be around. That’s what makes them so dangerous. So, a lot of guys who get into the know just jump to the conclusion that there are no good girls. But that would be incorrect. There are always, always ways to tell them apart. Keeping up a complete fascade requires enormous discipline and only the rarest of people can keep one up consistently.
I frankly doubt the ability of most guys, even guys with a lot of sexual experience to tell a good girl from a bad girl. What about the girls that reject you? What about the girls you have no contact with? Selection effect does matter.
She’s into anime and video games, she doesn’t dress like a girl, she doesn’t like going to parties, and her idea of a fun Saturday night is playing BioShock alone on her laptop. She’s a Computer Science major for God’s sake!
She sounds nearly perfect for my younger brother, but he prefers Asian girls. In contrast, I prefer skanks.
There is no god or karma to punish the wicked and reward the just – there is only the universe, which is amoral and turns a deaf ear to the suffering of the good and the triumphs of the evil.
My folks raised their kids right.
What sense does it make to say that kids can be raised “right” when there is no god and the universe is amoral?
You know Andrew, I’m not sure Ferdinand was angling for a morally consistent argument in that section.
You’re excused.
Well excUUUUUSE me!
I actually agree with Whiskey here. I’ve met a lot of women with stern, and moralistic Fathers, and the end result seems to be that they like to call you Daddy while getting fucked.
I’m sure I’m not the only one that has noticed that a lot of the ballbusting, status obsessed, Alphacock hoppers are bigtime Daddy’s girls too. Not general affection but bizarre and incestuous worship. I don’t mean in the way that their Dad’s put them on pedestals and spoiled them either. Dad’s that are dominating and invasive in the girls life beyond the point of being over protective.
I think if you teach your daughter to ‘not make it easy’ that just tilts things in favor of players. You want them to make it hard for a certain type, and easy for another.
That is even if nurture can play that big of a role. If your daughter is naturally inclined to be an attractive, extraverted, socially sensitive, people pleaser, I’m not sure what kind of home culture you could reasonably have that is going to realistically steer her straight.
Even if you did want her to settle down and have kids with a studious, responsible beta before cougardom strikes, your application of ‘looking for the right one’ meme will probably see her plough through her share of the ‘wrong ones’ while looking for what you told her to look for.
If you teach her Game, and what to spot is she really going to weed out PUAs looking for a pump ‘n dumps, or is she going to weed out betas trying to just get a solid girlfriend? (Which is from my experience the actual majority of men employing Game.) Basically you are arming her with the tools to only find ‘real Alpahs’ or naturals or w/e. That is weed out the men who are pretending to have their share of dark triad traits for the purpsoses of wooing her and find a real sociopath or narcisist instead.
I don’t know. It all seems like a crapshoot. I plan on having kids one day, and being a part of their lives (which also seems like a real crapshoot). I don’t plan on being an overweening, invasive Father to my theoretical daughers, and hope she/they win out in DNA roullette and I’ll do the best I can otherwise.
Whenever I’m with guys and I honestly tell them about my lack of sexual experience they’re reaction is usually anywhere from disbelief, ambivalence to “hot”. I tend to prefer older guys though so this could be a big factor. Immaturity in guys is a big turn off for me. I also tell the guys about my sexual inexperience at or before the make-out. I see no reason to lie.
When I get a girl’s panties off and I see a nice, full bush, I know I am in heaven. The ideal is trimmed but full. I love a nice bush on a girl.
V…you need to tell us more about your sexual inexperience, or experiences. How many guys have you been with? Or not. What have you done. Or not. What do you like, or not. I think you are closet freak waiting to break out. We’d love to know.
“Note this, female-defenders: all three of these women were raised in strict churchgoing families in conservative cities in Texas”
LOL. Check out the divorce statistics for committed evangelical christians. Religion doesn’t change how people behave, it just gives them a different set of excuses to use. The bible says that God hates divorce, but every one of those twice-divorced women filling the pews will tell you with absolute sincerity that Jesus told then that it would be ok in her particular case.
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