“The finall Cause, End, or Designe of men, (who naturally love Liberty, and Dominion over others,) in the introduction of that restraint upon themselves, (in which wee see them live in Common-wealths,) is the foresight of their own preservation, and of a more contented life thereby; that is to say, of getting themselves out from that miserable condition of Warre, which is necessarily consequent (as hath been shewn) to the naturall Passions of men, when there is no visible Power to keep them in awe, and tye them by feare of punishment to the performance of their Covenants, and observation of these Lawes of Nature…”
Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan
There are days when I feel tempted to change the name of this blog. Maybe go with something more apropos in regards to my pseudonym. But then reality proceeds to reach down from the heavens and slap me across the face:
Health care reform has cleared the U.S. Congress after roughly a year of legislative drama on Capitol Hill. The House of Representatives passed the necessary legislation, on a tight, party-line vote, handing President Barack Obama a crucial victory.
It was a close victory for President Obama, but a victory nonetheless.
“We pushed back on the undue influences of special interests,” he said. “We didn’t give in to mistrust or to cynicism or to fear. Instead, we proved we are still a people capable of doing big things.”
He staked his young presidency on the outcome of this vote. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi made a final pitch for the bill, saying the president’s economic agenda is at stake.
“The best action we can take on behalf of America’s family budget and on behalf of the federal budget is to pass health care reform,” she said.
This bill is the absolute worst that could have emerged from the congressional cauldron. If it becomes law, it will nationalize a gigantic chunk of the U.S. economy without doing a damned thing to smash the HMOs (whose existence was fostered and subsidized by the government in the form of the HMO Act of 1973) that hold the American healthcare system hostage. I’m opposed to universal healthcare, largely because there’s no way to get it to work effectively in a country as large, diverse, and divided as the U.S., but implementing a single-payer system would have at least made sense on a certain level. It’d still tank the economy, but at least we the people would get some freebies before it all went down in flames!
Roissy says it best:
If an alien race ill-disposed to America were to devise a plan to bring the US to her knees as quickly, efficiently, and bloodlessly as possible (so as not to arouse a mighty backlash of patriotic fervor, i.e. survival instinct) they could do no better than what we have done to ourselves over the past 50 years. A plan to drain the nation’s coffers and psyche — not to mention the good will of her allies — with half-cocked schemes to export democracy to shitholes around the world that are constitutionally incapable or unwilling to embrace democracy, coupled with a zeal for importing vast numbers of ethnically (and genetically) antagonistic and listless peasant stock who will vote 2 to 1, generation after generation regardless of the desperate political pandering to staunch it, for socialist politicians and the concomitant racial grievance spoils machine whose gears never stop thirsting for the slick blood of the hated enemy, would break the back of the nation’s people insidiously, cracking each vertebrae in the middle of the night with hairline fractures designed to avoid sudden jolts of pain. Numb any immunological reaction with the soul poison of feminism, enervating porn pills, mollifying technogadget distractions, and a PC shaming mechanism psyche-out that would make Orwell blush, and you have a perfect recipe for destroying a world-bestriding superpower in less than half a century without firing a single shot.
The basis of social contract theory, going all the way back to Hobbes, is that people surrender sovereignty to an elite in return for protection, be it military, economic, or social. The beauty of a contract is that when one side violates it, the other side is automatically released from their obligations. It’s plainly obvious that for the past forty years, the American elite has been wiping their asses with the social contract. To Roissy’s list above, I would add the mass outsourcing of manufacturing jobs, the backbone of the American economy, to third-world hellholes under bogus “free trade” agreements all so greedy CEOs can save a couple of bucks by paying their illiterate peons a pittance for slave labor; jailing a greater percentage of its population then any other first-world nation for non-crimes like drug possession to fuel the prison-industrial complex; and sluicing billions of taxpayer dollars in bailouts to corrupt bankers who make a living from screwing people over and playing games with the nation’s money. The politicians and captains of industry of yesteryear may have been greedy, corrupt sons of bitches, but they were OUR greedy, corrupt sons of bitches, precisely because they knew that there were certain lines that they weren’t allowed to cross.
All violent revolutions are precipitated by an elite betrayal of the people. Pre-Revolution France was a nasty place, with the First and Second Estates conspiring to screw over the remaining 98 percent of the population. It resulted in the king, Marie Antoinette, and their associates’ executed by guillotine, with their subjects cheering on their deaths, and ended with Europe in ruins from the Napoleonic Wars. Just a century-and-a-half earlier, the excesses of Charles I embroiled England in a civil war that lasted a decade and ended with the monarch on the scaffold and a murderous, fanatical regime in power. The Russian Revolution was the result of a sclerotic, ignorant, incompetent royal family plunging their nation into ruin. It ended with Czar Nicholas II and his entire family shot dead in a basement and Europe’s largest nation falling under the communist shadow. The rise of the Young Turks, Nazi Germany, Maoist China – all of them were caused in part by the combined incompetence and avariciousness of their nations’ elites.
People are willing to tolerate certain excesses on the part of their overlords, but they will not tolerate being fooled, fleeced, and fucked over repeatedly while the elite cackle and make off with their ill-gotten gains. There have been times in history where wise leaders have purged factions of the elite who did nothing but terrorize the populace. Peter the Great’s disenfranchisement of the boyars, Mahmud II’s slaughter of the Janissaries, Teddy Roosevelt’s trust-busting – all of them were designed to weed out elements that existed solely to leech off of the state’s subjects and avert a bloody uprising. But when the entire sovereign structure, from the politicians of all the major parties to the money-men to the bureaucrats, are united in their schemes, there is no hope for change within the system. If history is our guide, this epoch of American history will end in a tidal wave of fire, as the long-oppressed slaves rise up to decapitate their former masters. Joe Stack was just the beginning – there are plenty of other folks who, seeing that the entire apparatus is aligned against them, will decide that “violence is not only the answer, it is the only answer.” Like I wrote before, I say all of this not to threaten but to warn.
The one saving grace of this bill is that it probably won’t clear the Senate, at least not in its current form. But its mere passage is evidence enough that our elites see us as nothing more then suckers to be conned, cattle to be milked until the udder is squirting blood. But being a mark requires the consent of the swindled. You can’t be a sucker unless you CHOOSE to be a sucker. Are you going to just stand there and moo as the milkmaid wrings the last drop out? Are you going to obey the demands and dictates of a group who want nothing more than to strip you of everything you own, fuck you in the ass, and leave you to starve in the streets? Or are you going to take a stand for yourself and your loved ones?
For that, my friends, is the point of living in mala fide.
{ 55 comments… read them below or add one }
In a way this dysfunctional bill is what will precipitate change.
Throughout history, change only occurs after a system fails and is publicly discredited. This bill is a giant giveaway to insurers, hospitals and doctors without any redeeming feature. It will start that process.
Even narcissistic “capitalist” parasites such as Switzerland and Singapore have effective public healthcare options.
Will be interesting to see what happens as the deficit continues to swell and the US’s debt rating is downgraded. This bill is only going to accelerate the coming entitlements crisis…
You can stay and fight, and lose your life.
You can stay and serve, and lose your dignity.
Or you can leave.
Why do you think the ex-pat lifestyle has grown so significantly in the past few years? The new elites now promote it; it’s blatantly written about in best-sellers like the 4HWW. It’s only the old elites that cling to America.
AD,
Bullshit. This bill is NOT a giveaway to doctors or you wouldn’t be seeing about half of the doctors working today saying “if this damn thing passes, I’ll quit!”
You know, in the years preceding the Second World War, many intelligent people had a sense of foreboding that something bad was going to happen.
I must admit that for a long time now I’ve not been able to shake off that feeling.
The world that emerges 20 years hence is going to be vastly different to one we’re inhabiting now. Things will not be the same and I’ve got this really bad feeling that things are going to be ugly; really ugly.
Popular democracies always vote themselves into an unstable state, which disintergrates given a crisis.(Hitler would have been impossible without the Left wing stupidity of the Weimar state). The age of popular democracy will probably soon end. The despotic aristocracy that will be needed to sort things out will be up for grabs.
I can’t agree with that, slumlord, because there are democratic governments in the US which enjoy a high degree of popular respect like Virginia’s state government. Well before this obamination was passed, our elected government told Congress that it would be DOA in Virginia. AFAIK, the bill to opt out of it has already passed both houses in Virginia and is awaiting our governor’s signature, and our governor has been one of the leading voices against it in the South.
I really hope I’m wrong MikeT. I really do. But I’ve this sinking feeling……..
You can’t enact encompassing legislation that requires man to act against his own (surface, benign) nature and expect that his lower, less benign impulses will not be awakened.
The future is every man for himself. I’m with slumlord. THAT’s why I’ve been learning to garden and can and dreaming of living off the grid. Self-preservation.
I’m not sure why you repeat the meme of this nationalizing health care because I agree with you wrt single-payer, drug laws, offshoring, etc. Nationalizing refers to the government taking ownership of an industry.
[Probably not the best choice of words, but it still amounts to the government shoving their proboscises into an area in they've already fucked up spectacularly. - ed.]
Essentially, the bill proposes to do three things:
1. Reduce Medicare spending. This would involve reducing waste. Good luck with that. Doctors are up in arms because they will be paid less for treating Medicare patients.
2. Regulate private health insurance companies. The Dutch do this.
3. Tax various entities so people can send that money to aforementioned private health insurance companies.
It’s a redistribution scheme. People who can’t afford health insurance get health insurance and those health insurance companies get money they wouldn’t otherwise receive. Have you noticed that their stock prices have gone up in the past few days?
[There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.
And on an unrelated note, I can see why everyone else uses this inline method of replying to comments. It's a hell of a lot faster than scrolling to the bottom of the page.]
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=UNH#chart1:symbol=unh;range=5d;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefined
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=CI#chart1:symbol=ci;range=5d;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefined
As do, I slumlord, but I don’t see this as a direct threat to republican government rather than as a direct threat to the future of the union. Our differences are too great, even now. I fear that if things come to a head in a Great Depression 2.0 that is riddled with intractable political corruption, that those differences will explode in a way that makes 1860 look like a walk in the park.
For my money, if we ever get to that point, I expect Virginia and West Virginia to reunite, the governor to call up the Virginia Army National Guard and begin reactivating the Commonwealth’s old Army.
The social contract is in tatters.
On another note..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK8POoP_vZY&feature=player_embedded#
You know the fundamental problem that no one wants to admit to, is that we do not have capitalism in this country. We constantly see those who support capitalism and those who support socialism, arguing about roles of the government, however, the people who are actually winning, are the corporatist.
Whether government gets bigger or smaller, the lobbyist are still going to be around and as long as that exists, we will continue to have issues between the left and the right.
The issue is corporatism, where we end up putting the interest of the corporation, over the interest of the people. Thus, why we bailed out corporate America, and we have not, and will not, bail out middle class America.
Seriously, do you mind explaining a bit more in depth as to why you’re against this bill? Are you against it from a perspective that it’s a rent-seeking bill for insurance companies, or do your libertarian viewpoints view health insurance as a privileged and “fuck” those who can’t afford it?
[Both. This bill will cost the same as a universal healthcare plan without actually providing universal healthcare. It's the equivalent of a Sunday morning hangover without the preceding drunken fun. - ed.]
coupled with a zeal for importing vast numbers of ethnically (and genetically) antagonistic
People like my parents.
the concomitant racial grievance spoils machine whose gears never stop thirsting for the slick blood of the hated enemy
As somebody at Steve Sailor’s place noted, black people are racial communists. In other words, they want “real” equality with rights, not just the political equality, but social and financial equality.
Even narcissistic “capitalist†parasites such as Switzerland and Singapore have effective public healthcare options.
The odd part is that the public option was deemed to be “evil” and socialist. I’m not happy about this bill because it lacks a proper option to prevent massive amounts of rent seeking by insurance firms by milking the market in the same way that schools and private student loan lenders milk the government via financial aid.
Parts of the bill make sense and I am in favor of them. The clauses that ban rescission, for example. The elimination of lifetime maximum expenses is another. These provisions are good.
However, the part of the bill that I object to is the personal mandate to buy comprehensive health insurance that I do not need. I have a high-deductible, catastrophic insurance policy that is optimized for my and my wife’s needs. We pay around $400 per month for it. The kind of insurance that the government will mandate that we buy will cost around $1,000 per month and will cover things we do not need (birth and natal care, substance abuse treatment, mental health, etc.). I have no need for this bullshit and I refuse to pay for it.
The risks my wife and I face are 1) cardiovascular events (stroke, heart attacks), 2) cancer, and 3) any kind of trauma injury such as a car accident (There are supplements and other methods that I use to reduce the risks of 1 and 2). I need insurance to pay for these only and the catastrophic policy that I have is sufficient for this purpose. Assuming this bill does not get repealed or altered by 2014, I will either simply refuse to purchase the comprehensive insurance and pay the $750 fine (in the Senate bill). If the reconciliation bill actually passes (this is the one with the draconian tax increase and tax fines for not having “proper” insurance), I will likely leave the country before 2014, as much of my work involves Asia anyways.
Ferdinand:
Yes, obviously the cost is what is at the heart of the matter, like when you cut taxes and increase Medicare spending like a certain previous Congress. Who’s going to pay the piper?
[There's no way to pay the piper now. There's simply too many zeroes on the bill. - ed.]
Also, what’s with bloggers spelling french words like how they pronounced? Apropo should be apropos. Obsidian writes vis-Ã -vis as vis-Ã -vie.
[It's an ingrained typo. Sue me.]
Relax, people.
Regimes come and go. So do countries.
Your ancestors came here, at great personal risk, fleeing exactly this sort of oppression and bondage.
Why can’t you do the same, particularly in an age of air travel, the Internet, etc?
You should feel no worse about leaving your country than about leaving an employer, or breaking up from an LTR.
The golden rule of the 21st century :
Be agile, be flexible, have multiple streams of income, learn Game.
Now quit sobbing and start preparing to leave for greener pastures.
[DING DING DING! We have a winner! - ed.]
As you know, I have been advocating this for a long time.
The future health of a society can be accurately gauged by its tax rate on Long-Term Capital Gains.
India : 0%
China : 0%
America today : 15% + state taxes
America in 2012 : 23.8% + state taxes
Places like NY and CA have high state taxes, that would make the total LT cap gains bite 33% or more. Contrast that to India or China’s 0%.
So what are you waiting for?
coupled with a zeal for importing vast numbers of ethnically (and genetically) antagonistic
People like my parents.
Hmm… That would depend. I think America also imports people (like me) who are political refugees from socialist or communist countries. Like the South Korean Pentecostals, or the Libertarian-leaning or Christian Europeans.
It’s the people who are arriving to get a free lunch, destroy the social contract, and milk the taxpayers that piss so many natives off. I think. Except for those that just hate black people, regardless of what we do or say or how we vote.
From 1945 through 2003, the “Greatest Generation” and their suckup assistants, those born from 1925 to 1942, contrived to extract more and more wealth from youth and enrich themselves. The 1925-1942s are the greatest free riders in history, with Medicare part D the cherry on top of their cannibalistic generational sundae. Obama’s bill has now begun the long process of clawing back all that misdirected wealth from the elderly.
The generation X crowd has paid too high a rate for SS and Medicare, and it will likely be completely repealed by the time they get to get theirs (this generation was also the poorest when born, thanks to all those transfers to unproductive tax-consuming dead-end elderly.) But at least that generation gets to guide as the whole generational rape is reversed; this bill, while bad, is the beginning of that process.
Ferdinand, you strike me as a man in your 20s. Since all you young healthy ‘uns will need to buy “health” insurance, how about finding out what it takes to qualify as a health insurer under this bill? Start a qualifying insurer, and then DO NOT ADVERTISE or set up a website. All policies must be sold by 20-something salesmen, who will only seek out their friends. If you made it a mutual insurance company, each 20-something could actually build himself a nice little nest-egg while depriving the vampiric outer society of the blood of your youthful, wasted, healthy “contributions.” F*ck this society that sought to abort your peers, use your body parts to heal their wounds, and enslave you forever for their irresponsibility.
Fifth:
Nobody wants to live in India or China right now. Living in U.S.A. with our exorbitant tax rates is still better than low tax third world countries. Give them 50 years and perhaps they’ll have the infrastructure in place for us Americans to enjoy ourselves there.
Ferdinand:
I thought the bill had already passed the Senate in December. Isn’t health care reform now headed to the President’s desk to be signed? It’s a done deal, I thought. All they are working on now is various amendments and what not to tweak the thing. I’ll admit I haven’t been following the whole thing because I have a forlorn sense that we’re fucked whatever comes down the pike. Can anyone clear this up for me?
[The amended House bill has to clear the Senate again. Technically it's a done deal, but you can't expect that the Senate will let it pass through their halls untouched. - ed.]
Democracy is indispensable. Without it, we would be facing a true crisis.
By that I mean THE WORD Democracy.
Slumlord said it best:
************************************
Popular democracies always vote themselves into an unstable state, which disintergrates given a crisis.(Hitler would have been impossible without the Left wing stupidity of the Weimar state). The age of popular democracy will probably soon end. The despotic aristocracy that will be needed to sort things out will be up for grabs.
************************************
He claims the Weimar Republic…. imposed on a conquered people by force of arms is a “Democracy”.
Is there any nation in the world that is NOT a democracy by this definition? Any country at all?
Nobody wants to live in India or China right now. Living in U.S.A. with our exorbitant tax rates is still better than low tax third world countries.
Really? Nobody?
BusinessWeek Article : Why MBAs are going to Asia.
It is not 1988 anymore (i.e. terms like ‘third world’ are obsolete). It is not even 2006 anymore.
Things have changed. Among xsplat, gunslinger, John Nada, etc., none of them regret their decision to move. Go ask them.
Give them 50 years and perhaps they’ll have the infrastructure in place for us Americans to enjoy ourselves there.
You really have no idea, Chuck. Would you miss the ‘infrastructure’ of Family Court, the False Rape Industry, etc. that America has?
When is the last time you spent more than a week in an Emerging Asian country?
I know everyone is passionate, but this is nothing. Mao’s Cultural Revolution, now that was hardship. This is health reform. It’s not the end of the world. Perspective please.
Note that car insurance is mandatory, and no one complains.
[Car insurance doesn't cost the taxpayers billions of dollars. - ed.]
Why on earth would you complain when the President’s goal is to make life better for those who make less than $200,000/year?
[You poor fool. You poor, deluded fool.]
This is the best post I’ve read so far on In Mala Fide.
It’s plainly obvious that for the past forty years, the American elite has been wiping their asses with the social contract. To Roissy’s list above, I would add the mass outsourcing of manufacturing jobs, the backbone of the American economy, to third-world hellholes under bogus “free trade†agreements all so greedy CEOs can save a couple of bucks by paying their illiterate peons a pittance for slave labor; jailing a greater percentage of its population then any other first-world nation for non-crimes like drug possession to fuel the prison-industrial complex; and sluicing billions of taxpayer dollars in bailouts to corrupt bankers who make a living from screwing people over and playing games with the nation’s money. The politicians and captains of industry of yesteryear may have been greedy, corrupt sons of bitches, but they were OUR greedy, corrupt sons of bitches, precisely because they knew that there were certain lines that they weren’t allowed to cross.
Preach, Brother!
Fifth,
You’re Indian – Where are you currently living?
Don’t argue using examples of the fringes of society; we’re talking mass movement here, not marginal. A few people may have moved there but that’s because they likely have outstanding jobs and make really good money. Anything other than a marginal movement would dry that well right up.
Most people value their families and their culture that they are familiar with. Europe is a feasible destination because our cultures are more similar, but – for most people – Eastern countries aren’t an option. Even with lower taxes, the extra money one gets to keep doesn’t offset the other hardships people have to face. It’s just not worth it; some can do it, but its not for everyone. You make it sound like there are no external costs besides the cost of moving, and that a rational agent would obviously choose to live in the society with lower taxes. This isn’t realistic (first of all, it would be much more difficult for the average person to earn a good job over there compared to here; we still make more after taxes than we could make over there).
Like clockwork, you always pull out the “you have no idea” argument with everything because, after all, you are the 10th highest rated futurist in the world. I could very well enjoy living in India, but I could also hate it very much. Do you have some sort of argument that can prove a priori that I should or would like India better than the States? I fit in to the culture here, my family is here, I know the language, I’m more attracted to the women, and I enjoy the fact that I have more upward social and economic mobility despite the exorbitant tax rates. There are more types of jobs and more career paths to explore here than in those countries. I’m willing to pay some taxes if that’s the cost of living here compared to somewhere else that I have to sacrifice my comfort.
And don’t trot out false rape and divorce court BS. I’m not married and don’t forsee it happening in the near future and I don’t put myself in situations to get a false rape charge. Even if those costs were more widespread, I’d still choose the States over those third-world countries because I prefer bathing in clean water rather than my own piss.
This bill will cost the same as a universal healthcare plan without actually providing universal healthcare.
I have family in Canada, and there’s no way that I’d support single payer here in the States. I don’t think most Americans would stand for it, and politically the idea of the government doing any real rationing of care is even less popular than having a for-profit or non-profit non-government group do it, and thus you’ll end up with even greater rent seeking. Regardless, I think Americans will just have to consume less healthcare, at cheaper rates with less income for those providing service in it, otherwise, there is no real way to control costs. FWIW, this bill isn’t a healthcare bill per se, but a health insurance access bill. So while we’ve managed to increase the pool which should theoretically decrease premiums and shift some people out of emergency room care to lower cost primary care settings, this still doesn’t solve the high costs of providing such services. Thus, we’re left with the current compromise which reeks of the Swiss system. The odd part is that it’s not a “something for nothing” bill where everybody gets “free healthcare” with no additional taxes or premiums, but one that requires people who can afford it to pay which fits in with more with our national philosophy.
However, the part of the bill that I object to is the personal mandate to buy comprehensive health insurance that I do not need.
Along with the public option, I’d argue that HSAs should have been left as an alternative option, but HSAs require full acceptance to be really be effective. If the premiums are cheap, and you’re lucky and healthy, it may work out, but it’s annoying to pay full price while those with insurance are paying $25 co-pays, especially if you have kids, and it’s scary given that it’s not useful for those with chronic conditions or some emergency room visits (i.e breaking an arm). I think with some, HSAs are seen as a boogy man, and there’s a fear that people will avoid seeing the doctor because the full price of paying for one is more of a retardant than a low co-pay.
You’re Indian – Where are you currently living?
First off, I am an American just like you. Except that I have current info about the broader world.
My time is mostly here, but I only own properties there.
More and more of my assets and employees are now there.
I am looking into a Dubai condo too, since those are dirt cheap now.
Don’t argue using examples of the fringes of society;
BusinessWeek is a fringe? MBAs are the fringes of society? Surely you know that the top 1% pay 40% of all taxes. In CA and NY, the Top-1% pay about 70% of all taxes.
Only a TINY number of the top earners have to leave for the entire tax base to shrink dramatically.
The blunder that socialists make is assume that the people they want to exploit cannot leave. In this day and age, that is easier and easier to do.
Most people value their families and their culture that they are familiar with.
Are you aware that millions of Europeans came to the US about a century ago? Crossing an ocean was a big deal then, and they often never saw their siblings and parents again.
Even with lower taxes, the extra money one gets to keep doesn’t offset the other hardships people have to face.
Handicaps like no anti-male divorce court or false rape industry or sexual harassment industry?
You are way behind the times, and quite clearly have not spent time in an Asian country in the last 5 years. For Expats in Western jobs, luxury is high (you get a chauffeur, a person to run your errands, etc.)
You make it sound like there are no external costs besides the cost of moving,
You make it sound like the hidden costs of misandry are trivial. In those countries, people can have a family and kids at much lower risk than in the West.
Again, I am surprised that you are minimizing the impact of misandric laws in the West, particularly given articles you have written in the past.
Plus, you are clearly disagreeing with xsplat, gunslinger, John Nada, and others, who give glowing accounts of their new lives elsewhere.
and I don’t put myself in situations to get a false rape charge.
How do you avoid placing yourself in this situation? Do you film your bangs?
I’d still choose the States over those third-world countries because I prefer bathing in clean water rather than my own piss.
Again, total ignorance. Do you know how lavish of a life an Expat engineer, MBA, or Investment Banker
If you truly think that doing the same job in China or Singapore or India that you do in the US means you live in a slum with open gutters…..then yes, you are incredibly ignorant.
You didn’t read the BusinessWeek article, I take it, as it would shatter your comfortable delusions.
over those third-world countries
Again, it is not 1989 anymore. Wake up. There are tons of frog-in-the-well fallacies in your poorly-reasoned post.
In the interest of fact-based research, go ask gunsliger, John Nada, xsplat, Roosh, etc. about the realities.
Even Indian culture is vulnerable to this madness. Our culture is the most empathetic and soft. Once we amass enough wealth, I can see our pussified intellectuals calling for Extensive social net.
TFH:
Weird, I figured you’d have *future* info. That’s your thing right?
So why don’t you move overseas if it’s that great?
You speak of a few high-level earners moving overseas thereby depleting the U.S. coffers of revenue, but you forget that many more people immigrate to this country and become high level earners. The imbalance exists because those immigrating high level earners couldn’t make the same money they do overseas. They’d rather come here and work and make money and pay high taxes rather than stay at home and make much less money while paying nothing to the gov’t.
There will be a few MBAs who move to third-world countries and the numbers of expatriates will continue to increase. As this happens, watch as tax rates increase in those countries they move to. India and China have low taxes on wealth because *there isn’t any wealth to tax*. Once wealth gets there and once those economies reach a certain threshold, they will hone in on that money just like every western government does today. Do you think that those governments are more noble than Western governments? They want just as much of the pie as anyone over here does.
As for your comment about blundering socialists. The disparity in tax rates shows just how much of a premium Americans (and foreign immigrants) do place on living and working here. *Over time* economies should converge their tax rates. America and states within the country can have high tax rates while still keeping people here; a 0% rate in China and India hasn’t been much of an inducement thus far. If it becomes an inducement, Chinese and Indian rates will increase while American rates will decrease. *At some point* these rates should converge, and people will choose the homes based upon non-economic incentives i.e. culture, family.
As for the fringes, I meant that xsplat, Gunglinger et al are the fringe. Not in a perjorative sense, just in that they are living an unorthodox lifestyle. This doesn’t mean that they are backward or stupid for living where they do, just that they are special. They are happy living there and can make it. When you pose the question “what are you waiting for?” you imply that *everyone* should head over seas to take advantage of the low tax rates. This isn’t feasible – not only in physical and economic terms, but because people just don’t want to move there.
But I and most people don’t want to have our kids and families anywhere other than the West. Perhaps some critical out-migration will occur in which there are enough like-minded people over there to mate with, but that isn’t going to happen any time soon. Again, you overlook the *huge* up-front costs of moving as well as the *huge* costs of sustaining a foreign lifestyle. Of course, being a globalizationist and a multiculturalist and a diversity-lover as you are, you envision a point in time where nationalities, borders, and languages don’t exist.
Well, I’m the world’s 11th highest ranked futurist. So I know these things.
And fwiw, I don’t tend to overinflate the risk of false rape claims. They are a travesty when they happen, but I have higher risks of getting an STD. That doesn’t keep me from sex. I also have a higher risk of getting in a car accident, but that doesn’t keep me from driving.
As for the other misandristic gov’t policies, those will balance out over time. As you call it the Misandry Bubble, it will pop and cease to exist as marriage rates continue to decline and as courts become more equitable in their court decisions.
Chuck,
First off, you need to correct the following flawed assumptions of yours.
1) The assumption that even an Expat who moves to an Asian country, doing the same job, somehow has to ‘bathe in urine’.
On the contrary, an engineering manager in the US earning $100K can go to Asia and earn $60K, which is enough for a chauffeur, errand boy, and a bunch of other luxuries.
An American Expat is not lowered to the median income of China, India, Malaysia, etc. He is definitely part of the rich class there. This is what you are totally missing.
2) The ‘third world’ blinder. Again, it is not 1989 anymore. What is the ‘second world’, according to you?
3) The ‘poor infrastructure’ myth. China’s high-speed rail network and airports put America to shame. The roads are good. There are other problems, but America’s infrastructure is not what it once was either.
Chuck, you can’t really comment on the state of Expat life in Asia when you haven’t been there recently. Again, other white guys in this community love it there.
Now, on other points.
But I and most people don’t want to have our kids and families anywhere other than the West.
But misandric laws have made you choose to not have kids at all.
You think you’re better than gunslinger and xsplat?
If either In Mala Fide or The Spearhead put up a poll of ‘Would you consider moving to either Asia, EE, or Latin America if you got a job offer to do similar work as you do here?’, a lot more than half of the voters would say ‘Yes’.
And you know it.
a 0% rate in China and India hasn’t been much of an inducement thus far.
$3 Trillion has already moved from the US to Asia.
Plus, these countries will not have socialism in the next several decades, having blundered with it not too long ago. India had a Wealth Tax, Death Tax, etc. ALL of it was repealed. America is doing the reverse.
As recently as 2007, I never would have considered leaving the US. The gap between the US and China/India/SEAsia has narrowed VERY fast. VERY fast.
, you overlook the *huge* up-front costs of moving as well as the *huge* costs of sustaining a foreign lifestyle.
Your employer (Google, Cisco, Microsoft) relocates you at their expense (standard package). Plus, the costs of living are actually lower (again, you can easily afford a chauffeur and errand-boy).
Again, you just don’t know what the Expat life is.
Of course, being a globalizationist and a multiculturalist and a diversity-lover as you are, you envision a point in time where nationalities, borders, and languages don’t exist.
Weren’t you supposed to be the Democrat, and me the Republican?
Rather, you are the isolationist, and I am the free-marketeer.
The rest of your comments are more juvenile cheapshots rather than correcting the gaps in your knowledge. You’re better than that.
Again, you could get a second, third, and fourth opinion from people here.
As you call it the Misandry Bubble, it will pop and cease to exist as marriage rates continue to decline and as courts become more equitable in their court decisions.
Yes, it pops. It transfers the costs of misandry back onto women and away from men. But it is not a return to two-parent families.
As for the fringes, I meant that xsplat, Gunglinger et al are the fringe. Not in a perjorative sense, just in that they are living an unorthodox lifestyle.
There are over 200,000 Western Expats in China, and over 50,000 in India.
They have their own groups, country clubs, etc.
Chuck,
Even more simply :
Despite whatever snobbishness that SWPLs may have, there is a pretty strong flow of people out of high-tax CA, NY, NJ and into low-tax TX, NV, AZ, NC, etc. Census-driven reapportionment shows this each decade.
The same, over time, happens with countries. Particularly when some skills are highly portable, and some people can switch countries without switching employers (this is very easy to do for people in tech companies, in investment banking, etc.).
Tons of people from high-tax European countries moved to Ireland. Tons. Just like many from Jordan, Egypt, and Iran moved to the UAE.
America is not immune to this. Not if socialism continues to creep in.
Even Indian culture is vulnerable to this madness.
TFH, you read the Economist, right? Did you see this article last week:
Indian women on the march
I’ve thought about moving to Asia. India, specifically, since I do not think I can learn Mandarin. The word I got through the grapevine is that the expat life over there is a good one, and you can support yourself soley in import/export once you get a feel for the market. Just what I heard.
i’ve heard ex-pat communities tend to be incestuous unless you immerse yourself in the local culture. 200,000 spread out across an entire country that large of a population.
Interesting…
I know there are more than two options, but let’s consider just India and just China for a sec.
If I were to expat, and I mean… start the process of expatting, which country should I choose? I’ve heard China’s a bubble waiting for burst, and watching feminism overtake India (really heard about that through the grapevine, if you’re sure it’s not happening, let me know) so they both seem to be good, but only for the moment.
If I had to bet, I’d say I’d move to China, just for the sheer irony of it all. India’s great, but China seems more interesting.
If you can give me a site about expatting, let me know, but until then, I’ll just set up my context.
First, I’m a Finance student, with 2 of the 4 years in the bachelor’s done, so unless I can transfer credits (doubt it) I should finish that here first. I’d like to be a Financial Analyst/Investment Banker, and if those two countries are emerging markets for that (especially since everyone here in the states is painting all financiers are inside traders in cohoots with the gov’t) then I’m all for moving there.
Second, I know neither Chinese (Mandarin) or Indian (Hindi?), I’ve had experience learning a foreign language, but it was French and for 3 years in High School, I still retain a lot of it, so although making the jump from English to French is a MUCH smaller jump than going from English to Mandarin/Hindi, I may have some talent for learning language… I hope.
Third, I’m currently unemployed and with no working experience in my field (Finance), because… well, a.) they only wanted to hire Bachelor’s holders in the first place for even entry level positions, and b.) I’m assuming the finance industry (here, anyway) is still in shambles from 2008-2009.
I feel like, if I try for this, I might be “missing the boat”, as in the people already there enjoying life had this ready to go at the right time, they knew what they needed to know in ~2007ish when fit starting hitting the shan. If I take 2-3 more years from now just to complete my degree (who knows, I may need to get my MBA…) then maybe all the top positions will be filled. The middle isn’t so bad, but I imagine that everyone HERE will move there (by everyone, I mean all the financiers) and the postioning will be as prospected as here… or something. I have a cold so I’m not thinking straight. This sounds like what I was thinking earlier, but… CAN I miss the boat on this?
For my money, if we ever get to that point, I expect Virginia and West Virginia to reunite, the governor to call up the Virginia Army National Guard and begin reactivating the Commonwealth’s old Army.
Make sure the ordinance of secession specifically leaves Fairfax County, Arlington, and Alexandria in the USA. You don’t want those SWPL vermin in your new country.
Comment_Whatever says:
March 22, 2010 at 6:09 pm
Democracy is indispensable. Without it, we would be facing a true crisis.
Wrong. Democracy is the cause of the crisis, not its cure.
Democracy is the cause of the crisis, not its cure.
Thank you for pointing this out, because a lot of people keep forgetting that we aren’t supposed to have a democracy, we’re supposed to have a republic, if we can keep it.
Or, we had a republic, at any rate.
What is the difference?
Make sure the ordinance of secession specifically leaves Fairfax County, Arlington, and Alexandria in the USA. You don’t want those SWPL vermin in your new country.
Eh, you’re aware that the right wing GOP Governor and Attorney General (McDonnell and Cuccinelli) are both from Fairfax County?
Arlington and Alex are blue. Fairfax is purple — some bits are quite blue and others are dead red. Fairfax is salvageable, whereas A&A are not.
[I don't think all of this will be necessary. Once the articles of secession are drafted, they'll have to build a new bridge for all the liberals stampeding back to Maryland. - ed.]
Another one for the canon.
AmatStrat,
and watching feminism overtake India (really heard about that through the grapevine, if you’re sure it’s not happening, let me know) so they both seem to be good, but only for the moment.
There is a lot of old-school whiteknighting in India, but in judicial terms, things like alimony and child support=alimony are not happening any time soon. The one bad law is the 498A (which is similar to VAWA), but I wouldn’t worry about that unless your parents are both rich AND live in India.
Feminists ‘marching’ is a long way from US-style misandry. Most Indian women still marry having had 0-1 sex partners, unlike 5-20 in the US.
Second, I know neither Chinese (Mandarin) or Indian (Hindi?), I’ve had experience learning a foreign language,
English is just fine for India. Almost anyone you need to interact with speaks it, the only exceptions being the low-level people you need to hire.
I’ve heard China’s a bubble waiting for burst,
Only in real estate. If you aren’t buying property there, it won’t affect you much.
(who knows, I may need to get my MBA…) then maybe all the top positions will be filled.
Post-MBA would be MUCH easier. Not only do you have a highly-sought cred, but your MBA class will have lots of Indians and Chinese. They will be your friends, and help you get set up. The Indians and Chinese going to US MBA programs are the children of very prominent people in their respective countries.
Provided you do your MBA FULL-TIME, not part-time (where it is very hard to make friends).
Alright, Thanks!
Democracy is the cause of this crisis not its cure.
You need to qualify that statement. It’s not democracy that’s the cause, it’s unqualified democracy that’s that problem.
The Founding Fathers of the U.S. realised that for the democratic republic to survive, the vote could only be given to men of good character and prudence, because they realised that the government was a reflection of its voters. A corrupt people cannot form a virtuous or wise government.
While democracy was limited to people who were responsible, the Western countries were in good shape. However the rot set in after the vote was given to anyone with a pulse and the ability to use a crayon. Socialism only gained traction in the West after the lumpenproletariat were given the franchise. Giving the vote to people who could not manage their own affairs (i.e the imprudent) ensured the prole drift of the body politic.
Just take a look at the current mortgage mess in the West. It was not simply due to the greed of bankers, it was also due to the greed of the ordinary house flipper, valuator, contractor, ratings agency. etc No one showed any prudence whatsoever. What type of government do you expect from a people with such collective stupidity, greed and malice?
Obamacare is what you get when good people lose control of the government.
Oh, and while I’m ranting.
@Lindsey Abelard:
The clauses that ban rescission, for example. The elimination of lifetime maximum expenses is another. These provisions are good.
Yeah, great one. Free gasoline would also be good, but is it affordable. Can the country afford to pay it, especially since there is no real reform of your dysfunctional medical system. By pass surgery for 95 year olds? 30 years on a ventilator in ICU? How much is that going to cost Lindsey?
I don’t think all of this will be necessary. Once the articles of secession are drafted, they’ll have to build a new bridge for all the liberals stampeding back to Maryland.
And what of the conservatives in Maryland?
[There are conservatives in Maryland? LOL. - ed.]
Where I live liberals are shot on sight.
[Judging by the electoral map, there are more of them in Maryland then there are of you.]
We shall hole up in the mountains with the West Virginians and Pennsylvanians, I suppose, and put up a Gadsden flag for protection and identification.
[Hey, I've lived in enemy territory most of my life. It's not so bad. Just band together and ward off the freaks with shotguns.]
What about the stout Mainers and the righteous Mid-Westerners? Would you really leave us behind?
But it’s very odd for me to think that I would have to head South for my own protection. Truly ironic.
Note that car insurance is mandatory, and no one complains.
A very bad but common analogy.
The only type of car insurance that’s mandatory (and this varies somewhat by state) is the kind that protects third parties at-risk.
For example, you have to insure your car for its value (comprehensive) only until you pay off your loan, to protect teh financing company. And you are required to have liability in an event you hit another car and injure another person and damage their vehicle.
Also driving a car is not mandatory — no car, no insurance. And you also need a license to drive a car.
Living and breathing *is* mandatory and is not a choice. Basically this is a tax on life, on the fact that you are alive, not based on whether you choose to drive a car or not. No choice involved, mandatory for everyone. That is its legal weakness under the Constitution, I think. The main block I see to the challenges that have already been filed is standing — it’s very unclear that the states have standing to argue that the individual mandate is unconstitutional, because that impacts individuals and not the states themselves — individuals have standing to challenge that, but it’s not yet “ripe”, because the mandatory element doesn’t apply quite yet. I’d expect that once the mandatory element kicks in, we’ll see individual complaints being filed, and the cases run by conservative interest groups rather than the states.
Arlington and Alex are blue. Fairfax is purple — some bits are quite blue and others are dead red. Fairfax is salvageable, whereas A&A are not.
I live in Fairfax County. Too much of it is unsalvageable, that’s why I included it.
Once the articles of secession are drafted, they’ll have to build a new bridge for all the liberals stampeding back to Maryland.
So we may hope! We need to include some mandatory gun ownership and Church membership laws to encourage the stampede.
You need to qualify that statement. It’s not democracy that’s the cause, it’s unqualified democracy that’s that problem.
The statement stands. Qualified democracy inexorably leads to unqualified democracy inexorably leads to disaster.
The shit will hit the fan before we get rid of the socialist bull that has been foisted on us. In the meantime, I’m planning to expat, but not sure where yet. I can speak pretty good Spanish so Latin America is at the top of my list.
“”Feminists ‘marching’ is a long way from US-style misandry. Most Indian women still marry having had 0-1 sex partners, unlike 5-20 in the US. “”
Indian Feminism and it effects will be of different nature. I will attempt to include the structure of feminized indian society in one of my future posts.
Two scenarios arise
a)Indian Feminists with influence from hags of west and pussified Indian media attempt to bring down our ancient traditions, which would anger a lot of hindu and muslim traditionalists and lead to a violent backlash.
b)Indian feminism “rediscovers” itself and morphs itself to promote interests of women with out shaking up our family system.
The best anti-dote to Indian feminism is the strong presence of Islam in the country. Even if hinduism falls to Feminism, Islam will resist violently.
The case b) is the most insidious aspect.
The shit will hit the fan before we get rid of the socialist bull that has been foisted on us. In the meantime, I’m planning to expat, but not sure where yet. I can speak pretty good Spanish so Latin America is at the top of my list.
I don’t get it. Latin American governments are even more socialist than the USA. You’re running from socialism and Hispanic immigration towards even more socialism and even more Latinos!
Bhanu Prasad,
Agreed. But neither option in India is nearly as bad as what already exists in the Anglosphere, where a middle-class, law-abiding man can come perilously close to near-slavery and/or imprisonment if the wrong woman gets a whim.
I agree that Islam has a role to play, both in India and the West.
Vincent Ignatius,
Check out John Nada. He mentors guys expating to Latin America, and provides a lot of information.
The reason capital isn’t moving to India and China as much as some of you think it should, given the difference in tax rates, is the legal regime in those countries. Graft and corruption is the normal method of doing business; government confiscation makes property rights iffy; regulations and fees makes starting a business in less than 12 months a miracle; a lack of strong title in land makes borrowing for business extremely expensive in the rare cases it’s possible.
Obama is moving us in the direction of the banana republic: giving homeowners gifts of zero payments and principal reductions, at bank expense and in violation of valid contracts therein, will make borrowing much more expensive in the future; the legal shenanigans surrounding TARP make everybody wonder who else they’ll screw; limits on executive compensation making finding CEO talent even harder to find; de facto nationalization of companies (nominally private but so heavily regulated they’re really arms of the government) makes investment capital even more expensive to compensate for the risk; talks of confiscating private retirement plans to prop up Federal borrowing and spending (like Argentina did) is terribly scary.
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