Both Novaseeker and Chuck have written recently on how sex ratios affect mating patterns. Both of them focused on debunking the misbegotten notion that an excess of men is good for marriage. The studies they cited made the mistake of assuming that women are monogamous, a notion that anyone with an inkling of knowledge about female sexuality knows to be false. In the comments to both Novaseeker’s and Chuck’s posts, I referenced my July entry on Chinese hypergamy, which tackled the same subject, but in a real-world scenario. Go read it now, if you haven’t already. I’m here to talk about the other side of the coin – scenarios in which there is a deficit of men as opposed to a surfeit.
As I established in my post on China, sexual economics dictates that the sex that has the fewer numbers in a given environment has a power advantage when it comes to mating. When women are in the minority, their hypergamous nature leads them to leverage their increased value into polyamorous relationships with alpha males. Outside of a handful of alphas, any man who manages to snare a woman has no choice but to put up with her shit if he wants her to stay with him. But what happens when men are in the minority? When men are liberated from the constraints of what women demand, as Michael Blowhard reports (hat tip:Â Thursday), anarchy and debauchery results:
If Fire Island was acres of beef on the hoof, Christopher Street was Mardi Gras in New Orleans, only with fewer inhibitions and without a female to be seen. One club or bar after another … Each establishment, and the street itself, filled with exuberant gayguys in freaky costumes … Music, drugs, and booze everywhere … Carousing of a pitch that would put beer-drinking Spring Break jocks to shame …
As well as the most aggressive and direct sexual behavior I’ve ever witnessed. I found the scene overheated and hair-raising all at once. I’d never before and have never since witnessed a scene so single-mindedly focused on getting off. People as commodities … Relentless dick-centeredness …
What a reminder that men depend on women to moderate and focus things. God knows that women can be no-fun, moralizing wet blankets — C’mon baby, let’s have us some fun! But maybe slamming on the brakes can serve a positive human function too. I remember one gay friend during those years laughing about the way straight people would often ask him, “Do you gays behave that way because you’re gay?” He enjoyed replying, “We behave this way because we’re guys.”
At the bars and on the sidewalks of Christopher Street there wasn’t a pretence at conversation, let alone at recognizing that anyone might have a personality. You were understood to be there to have sex, period. The single and only point was to find someone you could get off with, and quickly, because someone else you would want to get off with might stroll by in a few minutes. Imagine city block after city block offering nothing but sexual challenge and sexual invitation. A few studly gayguys threw even cloddish me some scarily-direct come-hither looks. Flattering! But yikes!
A number of sex ratio researchers, including Uecker & Regnerus and Kruger & Schlemmer, hypothesize that the hookup culture on college campuses is the result of women outnumbering men by a significant margin. In the general sense, they’re correct. Owing to the male compulsion to spread the seed to as many women as possible, a scarcity of men makes it possible for more of them to leverage their greater value into polyamorous relations with women. (Which is why if you’re just starting out in the game, you should frequent venues where women outnumber men.) Alphas will still get more pussy, but betas will be able to get more than they would under a balanced sex ratio. Basically, if you’re a college undergrad and can’t get laid, you’re either an asocial shut-in or a complete loser. The college experience isn’t a perfect example of life when males are in short supply, as its tribal nature makes, for example, racking up lays a delicate procedure that could completely wipe out your sexual market value if handled improperly (no “urban anonymity” in a dorm). For a more stark example, we’ll have to travel all the way to Russia.
It’s well known that in the Third Rome, women outnumber men by a considerable margin. According to the CIA World Factbook, Russia’s sex ratio is 0.86 male(s) to 1 female, way below the world’s ratio of 1.01 males per female. There’s also a huge gap between male and female life expectancy (59.33 years for males, 73.14 years for females – worldwide its 64.52 years for males and 68.76 years for females), so the ratio isn’t going to balance itself out anytime soon. The current dearth of dudes in Russia is a result of the massive wipeout of the motherland’s manhood that occurred during World War II. The combination of German military supremacy, Soviet military incompetence (a direct consequence of the Great Purge), and Nazi racial genocide led to massive casualties for Russian men on the Eastern Front. As Richard Bickerstaff reports in the eXile:
The estimate for Soviet War dead in World War 2 is 24 million (plus five million, if you count Poland). The Soviet casualties are split pretty evenly between military and civilian. The military casualties were men–young men, most without children. Civilian casualties are likely stacked 2-1, men to women. The battle-plan on the Eastern Front was basically Gary Brecher’s genocidal “primitive warfare”; men were most worth butchering, whatever the situation, and the nearer to fighting (marrying) age, the better. While the Nazis wanted to exterminate whole Slavic populations for “living space,” women were killed less promiscuously. Stalinist purges, likewise, focusing mainly on party-members, also targeted men.
This wholesale slaughter of Russian men made the survivors all that more valuable to women, resulting in these survivors overwhelmingly going for hotties. This more or less resulted in the attractiveness of the average dyevushka going up over time. Bickerstaff continues:
If you’re a living Russian man at age 23 in 1947, being alive, you are a rock star. Who are you going to marry? The situation creates the strongest possible selection pressure for female hotness, as we recognize it. You don’t even look at the plain girls. Whatever “hotness” is, from the perspective of evolutionary biology, men generally recognize it as the single most important factor in choosing a mate. Within a second any man can rank any woman on a scale from one to ten. When women outnumber you two to one, you’d only aim for eight and above. Throughout history, ugly women have gotten knocked-up nearly as often as their attractive counterparts. It’s human nature to pair up with somebody. But not in the postwar Soviet Union, the spinster-maker.
So within a single generation, genes producing five to sevens (remember, marrying-age girls) are gone. You get populations notably weighted toward Liv Tylers. Where? In Poland, where there was more wholesale slaughter, you see the phenomenon a little. It flares up most noticeably across Ukraine and into Russia, where male baby-boomer deaths were most demographically significant. Now compare the women of Eastern-bloc countries to… the women of England.
Those guys died for your sex life.
Fast forward to the end of the Cold War. The Iron Curtain has fallen, and Mother Russia has been freed from the shackles of communist puritanism. What do you get? Libertinism and hedonism! Moscow in the nineties was heaven for guys both domestic and foreign, as Antonella Morosi writes in this forgotten eXile classic:
By now, everyone pretty much knows the sordid truth about Moscow’s male eXpats. And yet it never ceases to amaze. Formerly respectable, squeaky-voiced Western men arrive in Moscow and, in a matter of a couple of months, transform into barking sexist pigs of a sort we thought only existed in the paranoid fantasies of turbo-feminist Andrea Dworkin. Almost without fail, they abandon their eXpat girlfriends and turn into modern day Hun-a-bies, burning their money on $500 whores, coke-head bimbos, and teenie-bop airheads in an orgy of condomless one-night stands. Things are even worse in the office. There must be more boss/secretary sex going on just in the conference rooms of Moscow’s multinationals than in all of Switzerland at any given time. Expat men, most of whom were sex-starved nerds growing hair on the palms of their hands back home, are now living lives they thought were reserved for rock stars, and nothing, it seems, can stop them.
When men are in short supply, good men are in even shorter supply. In situations where women outnumber men, the former are at the mercy of the latter and must conform to their expectations if they want to date and mate. Won’t put out, ladies? Give your man guff? Demand that he sack his cock before taking you from behind? Piss him off in any way? Say buh-bye as your guy replaces you with another chick who’ll shut up, blow him with extra tongue, and get in the kitchen and make him a sandwich afterwards. That is, if he doesn’t give you a second chance after beating you to a pulp first. The drive to survive forces women to do whatever men want of them, as Morosi continues:
The typical scenario goes something like this. Expat girl comes to Russia either in possession of or expecting a good, high-paying job, and also expecting to find or, frequently, already having an eXpat boyfriend. Unlike Western men who’ve heard all the raves over Russian women, she hasn’t heard anything flattering about Russian men that would attract her; upon arriving, for a variety of reasons, she is even less inclined to start up a relationship with a Russian. Instead, she expects a monogamous medium-to-long-term relationship with a sensitive, non-alcoholic, drug-and-disease-free Western guy who holds a decent job, and respects her as a person, not as an object. As for dating, sex is out of the question on the first, if not the fifth, date. Sex is a matter of mutual consent, safety and respect.
Six months later-after 183 days of disappointment and bitterness-she has become a different creature. The eXpat boyfriend has long since abandoned her for the polygamous pursuit of dyevushki flesh. After a spell of loneliness, she’s reduced to dating guys she never would even talk to back home, and sleeping around far more easily, and with far lower standards, than in her worst nightmares. And that’s only if she’s lucky.
There is a story going around that I ran into more than once while researching this piece. Whether it is apochryphal or not is something I can’t tell you. But it goes something like this: an eXpat woman-a USAID employee, to be exact-was said to be complaining to a bar manager at one of Moscow’s eXpat hangouts.
“I want you to understand something,” she says. “I’m not a lesbian. But I’ve been reduced to licking pussy.”
“A Russian guy will chat you up for fifteen, twenty minutes, then expect you to go home with him,” said “Stacy,” an American from New Jersey who works at a local advertising agency. “I’ve heard things about them-beatings and stuff-I don’t want to find out.”
So eXpat women are stuck between a rock and a hard place. The men-expats and locals alike-prefer Russian girls. Expat women resort to lowering their standards. In the absence of the possibility of finding Mr. Right, they succumb to one-night stands with Mr. Wrong. And that’s only on a good night.
A second opinion, from occasional Roissy commenter Dynamo Kiev:
Your hot Russian girl will be grabbed and approached by no less than 15 men a day here, and half of the men will probably physically grab her and not accept no as an answer. There’s no room for subtlety here. There is no need for “approach†or “opening†here. See a girl you like? “Come sit with us girl.â€Â “Come ride in our Mercedes with us, girl.â€Â That’s it.
Women here are beautiful because it’s a Darwinistic society. They know men go for looks, so they all compete on looks. If you’re over 50 kg and a young woman, you must lock yourself in your bedroom and not leave until you’ve lost the weight. American women are quite ugly, but I think it’s mainly because they are fat and dress poorly.  Subject them to the same kind of pressures they’d face here and I’m sure they’d gain 2.5 points of beauty within a few years.
As a side note, I’ve witnessed no less that 6 American women having nervous breakdowns here, usually at cafes talking to some male coworker, saying things like “I can’t take it here anymore! The girls are such sluts!â€
What she really wants to say is: “I can’t take it anymore. I can’t compete on any level with these women. I was so popular with men in America even as a warpig, but here, not only do all Russian guys ignore me, but all the American men can’t be bothered either.â€
So we’ve established that a man deficit results in looser morals, greater sluttiness, and more woman-beating. But what are the long-term effects of this on society? As Al Fin frequently blogs, Russia is a third-world country, mired in backwardness and regression. From his most recent report, on the Russian educational system:
Russia’s population is shrinking steadily, and will be only 1/3 the population of the US in a few decades. Its medical system is crap, its journalistic media is crap, its educational system is crap, and its military is crap. Russia cannot man its own vast mineral resources infrastructure, and is letting many billions of resource dollars slip away each year from crumbling machinery due to neglect.
Psychologically and spiritually, Russia is engaged in a slow but sure suicide. Its educational system is playing a crucial role in maintaining the downward course. Its journalistic media are keeping quiet, staying subservient. Its bureaucratic health care system is likely killing more people than it is saving.
In addition, much has been made of the high mortality rate of Russian men. The primary culprit is excessive alcohol consumption. All of the middlebrow hacks blame Russian men’s alcoholism on “economic change,” when in fact the answer is much simpler. When men don’t have to expend more than the bare minimum of effort to get laid, not only will they won’t do anything above and beyond the call of duty, they’ll gleefully wallow in their own filth. I forget the name of the comedian who joked that men would live in cardboard boxes if women would tolerate it, but it’s true. As Roissy detailed in this post:
Rampant sex and the perpetual pursuit of sex with thousands of willing partners would grind society to a halt. If STDs didn’t wipe out a significant portion of the population, sheer physical exhaustion from day-long fuck marathons would render the rest incapable of anything more than satisfying the bottom of Maslov’s hierarchy of needs.
Marriage? Kids? Um, yeah. Civilization? It’d putter along for a while, but eventually the voracious id unleashed would reverse human achievement so rapidly that the forests would retake the cities, as it is doing in Detroit right now. I doubt you could walk M Street more than two blocks without seeing penis in vagina somewhere along the way.
Drink, fuck, and be merry, for tomorrow its all gonna burn!
The people who claim that women civilize men are wrong, but only half so. It is not women themselves, but the PURSUIT of women that tames men. When pussy is too hard to get, as in the case of China, it leads to insurrection among the sex-starved masses; when pussy is too easy to get, as in the case of Russia, the satiated masses are content to let society collapse around them. Civilization is only sustainable at the equilibrium.
All of the idiots claiming that Russia is reclaiming its position as a world power are as wrong as the people who are claiming that China will become a world power. You can’t build a functioning society with a bunch of guys up to their eyeballs in vaj.
{ 35 comments… read them below or add one }
You’re thinking of Dave Chappelle.
Do you read the exile much? I noticed that you quoted Limonov a month or so ago. Fascinating guy. I thought about throwing up a post on him.
Ferdinand,
Excellent post and analysis-and now you can see WHY things are the way they are in Black America-and what IS coming down the pike for its Whiter, larger half.
It has been noted and agreed upon, that Black Men tend to have an easier go with Women than do White Women, and while some have taken a few swipes at the apple in trying to suss out the reasons why, there has never been any deep analysis on the topic.
But it doesn’t take a sociologist to understand why things are the way they are in Black America-all one needs is a pair of working eyes and the commonsense God gave a billy goat. A number of factors account for what we see here, and they’re worth mentioning within the context of the Russian example you’ve cited:
1. Severe lack of “eligible” Black Men due to the Crack Wars (either being strung out on drugs, or killed by rival dealers, or killed by the police)
2. Severe prison terms (it’s a fact that both incarceration rates, longer sentences and prison construction have all gone up exponentially over the past three decades)
3. Tremendous economic change for Beta Males (the death of the blue collar sections, trade unions, manufacturing and the like have all but wiped out the Beta provider class Males in Black America, save a few shining exceptions to the rule. Moreover, the introduction of the Great Society, which had at its base considerable welfare subsidies to Black Women, made having a Beta provider obsolete)
4. Massive, no, scratch that-OBSCENE Male to Female ratios at the University level (I’ve heard that for every one Black Man at say, Howard or Morgan State, there are something like TWELVE Black Women. And similar ratios can be found at White unis too, by they big state or private schools. Like you said, if you can’t get laid w/such a big thumb on the scale, you should do everyone a favor and do a Cho of One, offing yourself)
Just the above factors, which, again, are near exact parallels to the Russian example you mentioned account for the state of Black America today. Of course, Human Natue being what it is, we often cannot see what’s going on around us unless its happening TO “us”, meaning those who look like you. Black America, from Day One, was ahead of curve along the lines we discuss daily in venues like these, it was just that most White folks thought it could never happen to them.
Ooops.
So, now hopefully thoe of you out there (Bete Rev, OneSTDV) can see why Brothas have a completely different view of life on these matters than you do. For most Brothas, pussy is only a tweet away, and if you’re a Brotha with anything on the ball you can literally write your own ticket. I know, because I’ve done it. Think about it-how likely is it for a non-college educated White guy to routinely bag topflight college educated White gals? To ask the question is to answer it. Yet that’s been my experince almost from Day One, because Sistas understand, if only instinctively, that Good Men are hard to find, especially in the hood. And if they want to have any chance of having some Manly company and their bottom happy, they’d best get with the program and recognize.
Of course, there are the Sistas out there who make stiff upper lip declarations like “I can do bad all by myself” and “I won’t settle for less” and decide to go it alone, or failing that, going the Lesbo Route-something that I have seen an uptick in in recent years. But really, all the “strong Woman” rhetoric rings hollow when you’re alone in bed at night, to say nothing about not knowing what its like to get the High Hard One since Bush was POTUS.
That’s right fellas, there are a lot of Black Women in the exact same boat as many Russian and ex-pat American White Women-they either can’t meet the standards of the relatively few eligible Russian/expat American White guys, and/or they refuse to lower their own, and the result is A LOT of very unhappy campers. Now you know why so many Black Women look so aggressive. Blue Balls ain’t no joke, but prolonged Cock Deprivation is nothing to sneeze at either.
Lemme give you a real life example, ripped from the Obsidian Archive. Last month me and Brown Sugah hosted a dinner party, and among the multitude was one of her grlfriends, “Cee Cee” we’ll call her. Cee Cee is quite nice-hourglass figure, DD bosom, hips, thighs and bootay to die for, brownskinned w/mermaid eyes. Di her undergrad and grad studies at Ivys, has two Master’s degrees, one of em from Columbia. And she lives in one of the most populous cities in the country.
About ten minutes after her arrival, she simplys declares, like it aint nothing, that she ain’t had no dick since New Year’s-”Bush was still President!” she moans.
Now, think about that for a second. She don’t know me from Jack. And she just goes and puts her business right out on Front St.?
Whew.
Of course, being the always smooth and diplomatic Brotha that I am, I refrained from simply telling her that, if, as a good looking, smart, and successful Female, that she couldn’t PAY MFers to do the deed, that she has failed abyssmally as a Human Being, but when you really get down to it, that’s the truth. Either her standards are too damn unrealistically high, or she just isn’t *that* hot.
Or both.
The simple truth is that for Brothas who have ANYTHING on the ball w/them, they can and often do, turn their nose up at the Cee Cee’s of the world-even a quick pump and dump isn’t worth the hassle.
And now, at 35 years old, Cee Cee’s got a dead reckoning coming for her-either she makes some major changes to meet the demand of the sexual marketplace, or, she might as well get a few cats to keep her company in the new loft she just bought.
I’ll hold here. Comment and reply, holla.
The Obsidian
This is kind of interesting: the NW European fertility pattern until the Industrial Revolution was sort of like the Russian one, in that a fairly large proportion of women never married or reproduced. In most other countries, nearly every woman had children, though not as many per women. See Page 72-73 here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=uHWj6wy36oEC&dq=a+farewell+to+alms&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=cZd1Hrdp8j&sig=rdalF4YHfjQ5whQumMp3CAX80os&hl=en&ei=djuuSqr6GIqHlAfv6fi5Bg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3#v=onepage&q=&f=false
So why aren’t NW European women clearly more attractive than women from other parts of the world? I don’t know. Maybe the guys were choosing women for their money or something like that.
I have long maintained that the sex ratio favouring men from the 60s through the late 70s helped ease men’s acceptance of the sexual revolution. Michael Blowhard, for example, doesn’t remember anything like the kind of anger on the dating scene back when he was a young buck. The hangover for men really came in force in the 90s by which time the sex ratio had shifted in the other direction.
“Do you read the exile much?”
Still read the eXiled, but it’ll never be as good as the years when Mark Ames was taking speed and deflowering Russian teens.
This is a very interesting post, FB.
I’m accustomed to hearing the shift in social/dating/sex patterns blamed on a lack of a role for beta men worth a damn. But this is something different.
I disagree entirely with any claim that women civilize men in any way. They may domesticate them, but civilize, nuh-uh. That’s what properly socialized men do to women.
I’m not entirely convinced of the causal link between a dearth of men and Bacchanalic pairing behaviors. For instance, each of your examples feature unrestrained female sexuality. Also independence of female income. Both are hallmarks of a society in which the scourge of feminism has already swept through. Yet I observe that unconstrained female sexuality and independence of female income and status is both a cause and a result of a lack of an appreciable social role for beta guys and declining quality of them and conditions for them. In the college microcosm, this results in much fewer beta guys getting admitted to college, and in Russia, which experienced crushing feminism of the worst sort since 1917, beta guys drink themselves to death for lack of a better alternative.
Here’s a counter-example: While I was reading the anecdotal accounts from the expats in Russia, I was thinking about reading similar accounts from expats in Japan. Similar experiences, non-Asian men, white and black both, getting loads of tail in Tokyo while the non-Asian expat women, mostly of the Caucasian stripe, getting none at all (and turning down approaches from formerly sycophantic Western men re-educated in the ways of Roppongi). Yet the Nipponese male/female ratio is fairly normal. The difference? Unfettered, post-feminist female sex drives and equalitarian social roles destroys the social basis for male involvement in civilization. What we are witnessing in the colleges and in Moscow is the devloution of civilization back to a hunter-gatherer model. If such a contracting civilization isn’t conquered by another stronger one, it won’t disappear entirely, it will just establish a new equilibrium under a more primitive technological basis.
“What we are witnessing in the colleges and in Moscow is the devloution of civilization back to a hunter-gatherer model.” Elusive Wapiti.
Hence the Beta Revolution has ultimately and it’s the Revenge of the Alphas?
I disagree entirely with any claim that women civilize men in any way.
Women are, on the whole, not impressed by wanton cruelty and bad manners, and prefer not to be promiscuous. As such, they function as a curb on male excesses necessary for civilization and thus they are indeed a civilizing influence on men, i.e. they help make men fit for engagement with the wider world, not just fit to be good fathers within the home.
I would agree that the influence of women alone is not enough to civilize young men, and that older men are required as well, but female standards for acceptable behaviour are part of what makes for civilization as well.
What we are witnessing in the colleges and in Moscow is the devloution of civilization back to a hunter-gatherer model.
No, hunter gatherers had much more egalitarian sexual behaviour. Remember, in hunter gatherer societies, everyone knows what everyone else is doing and women had to be concerned about who they became pregnant by. Our current society has some characteristics of hunter gatherer societies, but just as many of polygamous early agricultural societies.
Women are, on the whole, not impressed by wanton cruelty and bad manners,
That must be why women in so many primitive societies (Native American, Central Asian) were put in charge of torturing the tribe’s prisoners…
My experience with Russian women: flirty, but horrible cooks. Also possible backstabbers. On the positive side, if you embrace them, they will embrace you back.
“Those guys died for your sex life.”
I doubt that the welfare of American expats sixty years hence was foremost on their minds.
FB,
You missed a couple of important distinctions. EW touched on it. The women in Russia do not seem to be looking to find a relationship or they would not be hanging out in bars or getting jobs as secretaries. It should become obvious to Russian women that sleeping with the boss does not lead to anything but being the company whore.
Nor is the appearant good looks of Russian women attributable to the sex ratio. All those hot women are now breeding with men who otherwise would have not contributed to the gene pool. Yet the birth rate in Russia is very low, particularly among the good looking. The fact is that motivation is key. Hot russian women are into the fast-paced high roller society life that sleeping around gets them. Pregnancy interferes with hedonism. 70 years of communism effectively stomped out traditional (Christian) moral sexual codes.
The good looking Russian woman dynamic (IMHO)can be attributed to a class of woman looking to escape the the oppression of the empire and resettle in the west, when her expay boyfriend goes home. Such women hang out wher the Ex pats and foreigners do, so to the untrained eye, it looks like they are all that way. She is playing the odds. The more she plays, the better her chances of winning. Just like the lottery. I really suspect that out int ehcountry, you will see a whole lot more genetic characteristics of asians and peasants. Sturdy woman… helpful on farm… make many sons.
Further,
As the gender ratio slides, the role of society and government become more important in regulating how the scarce resources are divided up. When the ratio is near 1:1, society has no interest in regulating such behavior. As the ratios get higher, the rights of the minorities or majorities need to be codified and protected. Is it OK to rape a woman, assuming htere aren’t many around? Or does the law enforce fidelity and the rights of the male who won one? I suspect a male dominated society would place severe restrictions on the mobility of women. Divorce would be harder. A man who has a woman would want the rest of society to recognize his claim and enforce it. Her will is not relevent just because she is scarce.
“I doubt that the welfare of American expats sixty years hence was foremost on their minds.”
Twas a joke.
Bah, I should have known. Well, I thought I would address this in case anyone decided to place the Red Army in the vanguard of the MGTOW movement.
These are beautiful essays, Obsidian. They really are.
For all the ‘revolution’ talk that foolish women are so proud of, in the old days, the average woman was guaranteed an average husband, and they would go on to have 4 kids, 12 grandkids, and have what ultimately does make women happy. The happiest women of all are ones with a lot of kids. If they managed a career as well, so much the better, but their happiness came from kids. This still exists in conservative rural America to some degree (I know a number of white families of our generation who still have 3 young kids).
But now, a lot of women will spend the final FIFTY YEARS of their lives (age 35 to 85) alone. Imagine that. Keep in mind that women live longer than men AND life expectancies are rising. A woman who does not have a lot of kids and grandkids is really screwed, happiness-wise. A man does not face these barriers to as severe of a degree i.e. a childless man can still be happy whereas I refuse to believe there is such a thing as a happy childless woman.
Sex technologies that are only a decade away will skew this even more against any women below an 8 in looks, including any women above 35 years in age.
Combine that with the fact that Western urban woman, at age 60, will have one or zero grandchildren, while the Muslim woman at age 60 might have 10 grandchildren – it is easy to see how quickly the population ratios tip over, making the ‘feminist’ cultures a historical footnote at best.
Good insight Thursday.
I don’t have vast amounts of experience with FSU women, but the Russian and Ukrainian women I have met have been good cooks.
Russian food is blander (fewer spices) than ours, so that might be some of the difference. A Ukrainian girl I knew had trouble eating food which I thought was barely hot/spicy.
I’m not sure that the increased attractiveness of Russian women is entirely due to competition. I think a lot of it has to do with the lifestyle over there.
-I don’t think (but am not sure) that the Russian women drink to excess as much as Russian men
-The US and Western Europe have much a more processed food supply than Eastern Europe. Eating a healthier diet with more animal fats and less processed carbs could have a lot to do with their looks.
As a comparison we can look at Poland. Poland is noted for having attractive thin women. Both Poland and Russia are Slavic East European countries, so they are similar genetically. Poland has a roughly equal sex ratio: http://www.indexmundi.com/poland/sex_ratio.html
It is skewed at older ages, but this does not matter for reproduction and marriage. During the 15-64 age group the sexes are roughly equal.
The war theory of East European female attractiveness doesn’t really hold water. It would take generations for that kind of change to take hold.
I have a lot of East European relatives from Saskatchewan, Canada. The Ukranians there were known for being fantastic cooks. Perogies, cabbage rolls. Amazing stuff.
Who randomly kills/tortures small animals (vastly) more often? Rhetorical.
What do you attribute the attractiveness to? I think a lot of it is due to diet, but I think there must be a few other important factors because Eastern Europe is not the only place in the world which still eats a more traditional diet.
Thanks, TFH.
I guess you could say I’m “warming up” for my own blog, coming soon. Plus, I wanted to draw the parallel because so very often, its difficult for our White brothers to see Black folk as human beings, capable of the same things as Whites in many ways. Also, there has really been no in depth study as to WHY the average Black guy has more Natural Game than the average White guy. That’s something I’ve been thinking about lately. Among other things.
Yea, when you get a chance, hit me up on the text message, Man. We gotta talk.
The Obsidian
Men are far more sadistic. However, women are deeply and innately attracted to power, and often find sadistic men “hot.” Michael Vick, for example, does not want for female companionship. The same holds true for Johan Van Der Sloot, did hold true for the Petersons, Scott and Drew, and OJ.
There are a few examples of outright sadism in women like Elizabeth Bathory, but sadistic behavior by men has been no impediment to their sex lives. Indeed, by showing they have no controls over their behavior they exhibit “ultra-dominance” and women fall for that deeply. Example: Dracula in the Stoker Novel is shown abducting a peasant woman’s baby for his “brides” to devour, and later killing the woman when she comes to his castle to protest. This cruelty (a deliberate choice by Stoker) makes him in fact VERY sexy to the female audience (and characters).
Much of Stoker’s novel is about how men like the average solicitor hero can compete with a guy like Dracula, absolute and cruel ruler of a foreign land, for his own fiancee. The answer is the “beta revolution” of AJ Travis and such — other men so victimized band together to destroy Dracula. In reality, that approach fails for obvious reasons.
Nevertheless cruelty does at the very least not turn women off, and mostly arouses them if done in a way that projects power and dominance.
Men and women are equally beautiful, but in different ways, and equally as ugly, but in different ways. Men DO the sadistic things, and women find it arousing. The bad is balanced by the good, but it IS there, in both sexes, in equal but different measure.
Whiskey,
Excellent points. But how does that serve the average guy today? Obviously, bcoming a sadistic killer isn’t a good idea, lol. So, what lessons can be learned from what you wrote and applied in a more socially acceptable way? Please explain?
Thanks.
The Obsidian
Black women face a dating disadvantage because there are a lot more educated black women than men. This means that there are a lot of amazing black women left single who would be snapped up quickly on the white dating market.
White men also face a dating disadvantage: numerous cultural forces have made it difficult to find a quality white woman. They exist, but they’re rare and snapped off the market very quickly.
Why don’t white men and black women start getting together?
The only interracial pairings we see with any regularity are :
*Black men with white women (both being lower income members of their respective groups)
*White men with Asian women (which seems to be less common now than before, actually)
No other interracial pairing seems to be remotely common.
This means that there are a lot of amazing black women left single who would be snapped up quickly on the white dating market.
You’re wrong. What it means is that there are a lot of crappy black women with college degrees due to affirmative action left single who no man white or otherwise wants to touch with a 100 foot pole.
the war theory about female beauty in Russia is absurd and only reflects the nerdish bias of HBD.
The emirs and sheiks of the MIddle East were importing Russian women to their harems 1000 years before Hitler was born. Yet surplus of females, a lá Peter Frost, added to enforced monogamy, does wipe out female ugliness accross many generations and this is how female beauty around the Baltic reachedits current levels
also, there is another Hitlerian insight people forget. The bravest and most courageous among Russian men were disproportionately killed in the war. Also, Russian sociopaths, who were also alphas, tended to enlist since they could freely unleash themselves at the war.
total war is dysgenic for men.
Unless there was a major genetic shift since the eighties when I lived there, the attractiveness of Russian women has nothing to do with genes, or at least not any more than any other European. Russian women (well, many of them) work on it, and they work on it really hard.
The man shortage exists, but not among the young and youngish people. I am not 100% sure (haven’t been there for many years, and reading their conversations on the Net is not quite the same thing as seeing), but I think that the abundance of beautiful women willing to please men is just a really ferocious competition for alphas, and being from the West sort of makes one an alpha. A Russian beta does not fare particularly well in Russia.
There are several reasons why the women there work so much on their appearances:
- they like rich men (like everywhere else, but they like them more than western women), and getting a rich man requires a lot of effort,
- showy and expensive clothes are a status symbol,
- there might be still some legacy from the Communist times: Communists sort of disapproved of make-up, dressing up and everything sexual, which of course made everyone want to do it.
Ferdinand,
good post.
roissy commented on my post that he doesn’t think the sex ratio has much to do with sexual dynamics (i’m paraphrasing). i responded that at the most base level *all* male/female social interaction is a response to sex ratio. women being bitches is a sex ratio problem. men deciding to be cads or dads is a sex ratio problem.
i want to leave you with a quote from the landmark book that opened up discussion on this issue. “Too Many Women?” by Secord and Guttentag:
“That the number of opposite-sex partners potentially available to men or women has profound effects on sexual behaviors and sexual mores, on patterns of marriage and divorce, childbearing conditions and practices, family stability, and certain structural aspects of society itself.”
As I pointed out, sex ratio rules human sexual decisions – in the aggregate – but they are made against a backdrop of the political and social safety net. if a safety net is put in place that benefits women for the most part, de facto sex ratio will be higher than the statistical reading.
basically, government distorts the true sex ratio that governs human intersexual interaction. unintended consequences as usual.
Brilliant essay on Macro Game.
M/F ratios is actually one of the biggest underlying factors in the Game.
Unfortunately for us in the US (unless you’re Black), we suffer a highly-elevated M/F ratio – which gives Fs all the sexual leverage here.
Don’t forget, aside from extended peacetime, most Mexican illegal aliens are also…male.
“So why aren’t NW European women clearly more attractive than women from other parts of the world?”
They aren’t?
I see that time and time again in every social situation, more men than women, and most of the women there already being clearly “taken.” The ones who are available to so-called beta males have been usually pumped and dumped six ways to Sunday, have multiple kids by different men, or are frankly psychos. Even worse, white women are being led to see white men as their enemies, not to mention being encouraged to shack up with black and Hispanic men. Many white men are totally disinterested in non-white women. That fact, along with the fact that many black women are not interested in non-black men ensures there are a lot of people who cannot find mates through no fault of their own. That is why this beta male has chosen to remain alone. Besides, I have noticed how women chase men who couldn’t care less about them, except that they have T & A. There is no way for men, beta males in particular to win this game when women have all the leverage. It’s time for men to play a new game, namely go their own way with or without women. The Apostle Paul advised men not to marry and do God’s work, maybe that is a role some beta males can fulfill. It’s either that or God willing, I get the means to marry outside of the U.S. Otherwise for many beta males, staying single and refusing to buy into a society bent on destroying us us the best option. After all, he who laughs last, laughs best and we may yet be the ones who get the last laugh. What alphas forget is that betas like me can and have taken them down and they never see it coming.
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