The years between presidential elections and midterm elections are exciting depressing eventful ones for Empire State residents, as it’s the year in which all of the major cities hold their mayoral elections. Having lived in this shithole of a state for most of my life, I’ve become an expert on the politics of New York. Because of this, and because I’m the only New York-based HBD blogger worth reading, I’ve decided to offer my unique take on the races in three New York cities, the ones with which I am the most familiar.
The triumphant victory of the black guy whose surname rhymes with “Yo Momma” in the presidential race last year has the Republicans in full Cargo Cult mode, scrambling to elevate blacks into positions of power everywhere. In Syracuse, the city where I grew up, the local GOP establishment has caught the fever, throwing their weight behind former city parks commissioner Otis Jennings for mayor. Yeah, there’s another white guy who’s also running for the nomination, but nobody knows who he is or even how to pronounce his name (is it Ki-may-she-an, or Ki-mot-e-an?), so Otis’ victory in the upcoming primary is all but assured.
I’ve got nothing against Otis; he seems like a good guy, and he could probably be a better mayor than the Democratic incumbent or the other clowns running to succeed him. Unfortunately, as is the case with the GOP lately, Otis was picked solely because he shares a skin color with a certain demographic that breaks for Democrats in tinpot dictatorship sham election levels. This is part of a strategy that has never once worked for the Republicans, and additionally, there’s one very specific aspect about Otis that will ensure he doesn’t get a single vote from the female half of that particular demographic:
Expecting black women to vote for a black man married to a white woman – a hot white woman at that? You fail, GOP. I wish Otis luck – God knows my hometown could use some hope and change – but it’s just not gonna happen.
…
In Albany, the heart of the Capital District, the chief stooge in Democratic Mayor Jerry Jennings’ (no relation to Otis, fortunately) political machine has gone down:
Police Chief James W. Tuffey is stepping down as the head of the Albany police force amid a swelling controversy over his alleged use of a racial slur.
Tuffey, who was appointed chief by Mayor Jerry Jennings in 2005, will officially retire Saturday. He issued a written statement announcing his retirement, but declined to speak to reporters. The statement does not explain why he is leaving.
The abrupt resignation of the city’s top law enforcement official comes as the department is unsettled by allegations that Tuffey made a racially charged remark last year in connection with a homicide case involving University at Albany student Richard Bailey.
Forget the name – this guy’s about as tough as wet paper.
Given that Tuffey’s APD had no problem forcibly performing a warrantless body cavity search on an innocent black man (among numerous other violations of the law), it’s not likely Jennings is dumping him because he used an impolite cuss word. The fact that Tuffey is stepping down two weeks before the all-important Democratic primary shows that he’s being used as a fall guy to help Jennings’ chances of victory. With the rise of Corey Ellis, the fat, carrot-colored white dude who’s run the All-America City into the ground for the past decade-and-a-half is vulnerable for the first time in years. Given the ludicrously huge registration advantage Democrats have in this city (the Republican mayoral candidate four years ago won roughly 7 percent of the vote, and no Republican has been elected mayor since the First World War), the September primary is more important than the actual election. Given how poorly he’s run the city, which has managed to hold together somewhat due to the presence of the state government, I’m looking forward to watching the fake-tanned bastard Jennings burn.
…
Finally, Fred Dicker reports on Governor Paterson’s unusual silence in regards to the New York City race for mayor:
A TOP state Democrat is blaming Gov. Paterson for the “complete silence” of their party in challenging Mayor Bloomberg in the fall election.
Stuart Appelbaum, one-time chief counsel to the Democratic National Committee and president of the large Retail, Wholesale and Department Store Union, also warns that the governor will be ditched by powerful Democrats next year if he doesn’t give all-out support to city Comptroller Bill Thompson in his all-but-certain challenge to Bloomberg, the Democrat-turned-Republican-turned-independent running on the GOP line.
Why isn’t Paterson supporting the Democrat running for mayor? It’s the skin color, stupid:
Some supporters of Thompson, who, like Paterson, is African-American, insisted that one of the governor’s controversial race-related statements 10 days ago explained the governor’s reluctance to back Thompson’s campaign.
Paterson, claiming that a white-dominated media had it in for him, President Obama and Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick, said, “Part of what I feel is that one very successful minority is permissible, but when you see too many success stories, then some people get nervous.”
David Paterson is a “success story?” What illegal substance have you been hoovering up your nostrils, bub? Paterson is the worst governor this state has ever had, and the worst governor in the nation. He’s an incompetent boob who was picked by Eliot Spitzer for the office of Lt. Governor simply because he was an affable minority lackey, and his ascension to power was a freak accident. His method of running things consists primarily of raising our already unbearable taxes even higher and slapping fees on every state-related service to screw the people over even more. During the State Senate crisis, Paterson revealed himself to be a rudderless idiot with no ability to lead. Almost every New Yorker hates his guts and wishes he would shut up and go away, and even his own party members hold him in utter contempt. If David Paterson is a minority “success story,” how bad are the minority failures?
A Thompson supporter called the statement “the governor’s code language for why he’s reluctant to support Billy: He doesn’t want another prominent African-American on the scene because he thinks it hurts him.”
Paterson won’t support a fellow Democrat because it might harm him? So this is American politics in the year 2009 – tribal infighting. How we have progressed as a nation! With Paterson’s acquiescence, the tyrant-in-training Michael Bloomberg is all but assured to become Mayor-for-Life.
For anyone wondering why people are fleeing the once mighty Empire State, this post is a damned good reminder. There’s no future for this state – none.
{ 50 comments… read them below or add one }
Ferdinand,
Interesting post and observations, but if I may, a few of my own:
First off, Politics in America has ALWAYS been a tribal spoils game-the Irish, Italians and Jews to name a few, always jockeyed for power and influence in the big cities in one way or another.
What is different is that, when it really matters-big mayoralties like NYC, US Senate and key Congress seats, Governorships and of course the Presidency itself-Black folks are beginning to assert themselves. And like any other ethnic or “tribal” group, they play spoils politics, too.
The big difference here, of course, is the history of African Americans, barred for most of the country’s history from participating in the great franchise. That, along w/the vastly different appearance of Black folks, makes politics in the modern era potentially unsettling for lots of Whites.
What White folks have got to do, is stop pretending as if this has always been a just and fair, “colorblind” place-that is just not so. True, America has shown a capacity for reforming itself in ways that is unparalleled in history anywhere-but old habits die hard, and memories are long. It may not be fair, but it is human nature, and Whites still have to learn that African Americans are human.
I don’t disagree w/your views on Paterson insofar as his ascension to power is concerned, and his inept handling of the Senate crisis. In the words of Clay Davis, that was some shameful shit.
As for Jennings, I am not entirely sure that he wouldn’t garner votes from Black Women simply because he was married to a White Woman; I think merely being a Republican is more than enough to turn away most Black voters in our time-and rightly so, because the GOP has done NOTHING to appeal to them at all. They don’t campaign where Black folk live, don’t engage on the issues important to them, etc. In fact, the GOP has done its Black members a diservice because it basically hangs them out to dry when it comes to making the case to Black folks. It all comes off as windowdressing of the worst kind, and smacks of the same kinds of dog and pony show that other Black Conservatives, like Thomas Sowell and others, put on for the GOP-they are largely there to assuage White sensibilities, in this case, Conservative ones. That’s cool, but we need to call a spade a spade.
So yea, the GOP running Jennings is kinda weak, but it is because they are trying to get over on the cheap, by merely putting a Black face up to run for an office, instead of doing the grunt work of actually changing minds and winning hearts among Black voters.
As for your stating that you consider yourself to be a HBD blogger, I have to ask, what are your views in this regard? Do they comport with or diverge from, say, OneSTDV, who is close to you in age and is a White Male like you? I myself have a very mixed bag of feelings wrt HBD, because I feel most of it is wielded by its loudest cheerleaders as a sort of “safe, respectable way” to keep dem Darkies in their place. This is why I take great pride in dogging out the aforementioned OneSTDV every chance I get, to show and prove to him that not only is he barking up the wrong tree, but that he also doesn’t know what the heck he’s talking about when it comes to Black folks either. And to add insult to injury, my very presence puts to bed the lie many things he advocates.
Looking forward to your replies.
The Obsidian
Obs, you’re right as always, as illustrated by the equal failure of black GOP candidates regardless of competence (e. g. Ken Blackwell vs. Lynn Swann).
Even when the GOP leadership goes black it does so for show rather than for substance. Michael Steele is a nice guy but rather ineffectual. The aforesaid Ken Blackwell would have been a far stronger spokesman for conservative principles.
You are also right about winning the hearts and minds of the community. The way to do that is through charismatic black preachers and community leaders who are willing to do what is nothing more than missionary work in ghetto areas. It also means trying to find quality GOP candidates in such places (no small task, I’ll well admit) and fund their campaigns adequately. Obviously, they’re not going to win on the first shot, but a sustained effort is needed to bear fruit (and no guarantee of success either).
I harbor no illusions about the outcome, but when you’re getting about 1% of the vote in these places, there’s nothing to lose.
“What White folks have got to do, is stop pretending as if this has always been a just and fair, “colorblind†place-that is just not so.”
It seems you’re saying America has never been “colorblind” or a meritocracy (I don’t entirely disagree), so we should just accept it and not try to change. I don’t want ethnocentrism and identity poltics and nepotism, I want to get away from that. You seem to say, well we’ve done it before, so why not continue it (of course, you likely only support this political scheme because blacks happen to be the best at it).
“I feel most of it is wielded by its loudest cheerleaders as a sort of “safe, respectable way†to keep dem Darkies in their place.”
You might want to check out this post: Is HBD racist? where I say:
“to show and prove to him that not only is he barking up the wrong tree, but that he also doesn’t know what the heck he’s talking about when it comes to Black folks either.”
I’m barking up the wrong tree? Really? You want to bash white women, I’ve done that too. But I’m more interested in race and I think that’s more important from a policy perspective as well, sorry. And yes I know nothing about black people. This is a standard response to white racial conservatism and the m.o. of the black studies professor. Seemingly, only black people have the insight to understand racial politics.
“And to add insult to injury, my very presence puts to bed the lie many things he advocates.”
I don’t understand this. How does your presence contradict anything I’ve said? Again, individuals don’t matter in public policy, only groups (and their averages) do.
I’m the only New York-based HBD blogger worth reading
So you have a low opinion of Half Sigma? =)
“So you have a low opinion of Half Sigma? =)”
Whoops, forgot about him.
Qualifier – I’m the only UPSTATE New York-based HBD blogger worth reading.
As for Jennings, I am not entirely sure that he wouldn’t garner votes from Black Women simply because he was married to a White Woman
I agree. Black women are undyingly loyal to Black men, regardless of how badly they treat them. Frankly, they’re stupid, as you can see where this strategy has gotten them. Tons of outmarriage, rampant cheating and 70% daddyless babies. They may want to rethink their Game, but on the other hand, their options may be limited by their low crossover sex appeal.
So you consider this an HBD blog? I thought you were more of a Game/MRA/anti-PC blogger?
Whatever you consider it, keep up the good work!
OneSTDV,
Replies as follows:
“What White folks have got to do, is stop pretending as if this has always been a just and fair, “colorblind†place-that is just not so.â€
OSTDV: It seems you’re saying America has never been “colorblind†or a meritocracy (I don’t entirely disagree), so we should just accept it and not try to change. I don’t want ethnocentrism and identity poltics and nepotism, I want to get away from that. You seem to say, well we’ve done it before, so why not continue it (of course, you likely only support this political scheme because blacks happen to be the best at it).
OBS: Please read for comprehension, One. No, I am NOT saying we should just throw up our hands, in fact in my last post I went out of my way to say that the USA has done MORE to fight the weaknesses and excesses of human nature than any other nation in the history of the world-but, with that said, old habits die hard, on all sides. Nor am I saying we throw up our hands on the political front, just merely poiinting out the fact that guys like you never seem to have a problem with the blatant nepotism of the Dalys in Chitown and other areas of the country, but all of a sudden do a righteously indignant piss and moan when Black folks do it. Why is that, One? You’re the “Race Man”-you tell me.
“I feel most of it is wielded by its loudest cheerleaders as a sort of “safe, respectable way†to keep dem Darkies in their place.â€
OSTDV: You might want to check out this post: Is HBD racist? where I say:
OSTDV: HBD undeniably accepts that distributions and averages of racial intelligences exist. The fact that 16% of blacks are above the white mean is well known amongst HBDers.
Genetic determinism is never pushed forward and the concept of individual merit is supported .
OBS: Yup, by tepid implication, which pales in comparison to the strident tones of HBDism that smacks of “genetic determinism” but doesn’t actually say it out loud. Nice try.
“to show and prove to him that not only is he barking up the wrong tree, but that he also doesn’t know what the heck he’s talking about when it comes to Black folks either.â€
OSTDV: I’m barking up the wrong tree?
OBS: Yes.
OSTDV: Really?
OBS: Did I stutter?
OSTDV: You want to bash white women, I’ve done that too.
OBS: Really? I can go through at least two whole pages of posts on your website and not see ANY such “bashing” of White Women. But perhaps I’ve missed something. Link please?
OSTDV: But I’m more interested in race and I think that’s more important from a policy perspective as well, sorry.
OBS: Yes, it is sorry indeed that you choose to scapregoat racially instead of tackling the real reason why you and other White guys are getting shafted. One doesn’t need to be a public policy wonk to know that the single biggest beneficiaries of Affrimative Action have been and continue to be WHITE WOMEN, and have a much larger, directly larger, impact on your life, One. But you keep on taking the blue pill.
OSTDV: And yes I know nothing about black people. This is a standard response to white racial conservatism and the m.o. of the black studies professor. Seemingly, only black people have the insight to understand racial politics.
OBS: No, I have never said that a White person cannot have a keen understanding of Blacks. David Simon is an example of a White guy who clearly understands Black folks. Nice strawman try though.
My problem with you is that you rely on abstract, and often half-baked, stats and “studies” over actual on the ground experience of and with Black folks. For example, One-have you ever visited a Black church or mosque? Ever been to dinner in a Black home? Been to a Black wedding, funeral, family reunion? Talked to Black seniors? Etc? This is why I took you to task on your “analysis” of Hip Hop, because it sounds like you got it from a quick sampling of the most sensationalistic kinds of the art form and saw a bit of BET and MTV and off you go on a riff. Again: are you down with Common, Mos Def, The Roots, Talib Kweli? If so, why don’t you mention them? Do they not represent Hip Hop, too?
Are we learning yet?
“And to add insult to injury, my very presence puts to bed the lie many things he advocates.â€
OSTDV: I don’t understand this. How does your presence contradict anything I’ve said? Again, individuals don’t matter in public policy, only groups (and their averages) do.
OBS: My presence in you and others who think and blog like you stands as a strong rebuke to many of your notions and ideas. For example, you say above that when it comes to public policy “group averages matter”-well, that stands in direct contradiction to both the basis of Americanism and more to the point, Conservative values, both of which is rooted in the Primacy of Individual Merit, Effort and Agency, which by definition precludes prejudicial treatment based on race or religious affiliation, etc. You have stated, on your website, that you would be willing to sacrifice some potentially “good” socalled “NAMs” if it meant basically keeping the bulk and mass of them in their place-I’m speaking about your handwringing wrt birthrates. I was born of humble parents and humble beginnings, but despite this I have achieved. But, because of said humble beginnings you’d be cool w/me possibly never existing. I find that disgusting quite frankly.
Your serve.
The Obsidian
“First off, Politics in America has ALWAYS been a tribal spoils game-the Irish, Italians and Jews to name a few, always jockeyed for power and influence in the big cities in one way or another.”
As usual Ob,you see only what you want to see.The Irish and Italians (lets leave out the Jews) “jockeyed for power” within a system where jockeying was the common means of conducting affairs.In other words,everyone was doing it,so it was more or less a “fair fight.”
Not so today.Blacks demand that their interests be accomodated according to an ethos that makes “jockeying’ by Whites “racist,” while “jockeying” by Blacks is merely being “assertive.”
Irish and Italians did not receive,nor request,quotas.They did not yammer hypocritically about “racism” or “civil rights” or sundry “I have a dream” nonsense.The played the system according to the rules of that system.
The Black way is similar to the female way.Complain about past ‘oppression” (conveniently leaving out salient details that cast that “oppression” in a very different light) demand “equality,” use the advantages of said “equality” treacherously ( i.e. “now its our turn to kick ass) and proceed to undermine the egalitarian compact by reaching for superiority ( i.e. White men are so evil,us Black/females are so innocent).
The couple you see pictured up above is nicely emblamatic of these dual tendencies.It represents a consolidation of these dirty gains.
But consolidated or otherwise,IT WILL NOT SUCCEED!
P.S. I’m a former “neighbor” of both sir Ob and Bardamu.I was born in Buffalo,Ferdinand.And I’m sure as hell glad I got out!And until recently I lived in Monmout County New Jersey,not far from you,Obsidian.
OneSTDV,
As for the GOP its track record wrt Blacks go, let’s be frank. The truth is that its record is abyssmal, and not because of its problematic overall track record, which is formidable, but because it trades in the very same kinds of “cardinal sins” it decries the Dems for.
The truth of the matter is that the GOP uses Affirmative Action, too, it just doesn’t call it such. Let’s start w/Clarence Thomas-everyone knows he realy wasn’t qualified to sit on the Supreme Court, and to think he could be the successor to Thurgood Marshall? Puhlease. Thomas couldn’t carry Marshall’s water, and anyone with even a smattering of legal cred knows it.
Next we’ll tackle Steele. Yup, he’s a nice guy and I personally like him. But not only doesn’t he have the intellectual heft to head the party, but he can’t even measure up to Dr. Howard “Wildman” Dean either-Dean turned the Dems around and played a big role in their wins last year. Steele cannot say that when his tenure ends. Basically, he was unqualified.
Colin Powell has said on several occasions that had it not been for Affirmative Action, he’d have never made it to the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Condoleeza Rice’s view of Affirmative Action is markedly different from yours. In either case, neither could be accused of being qualified on the level of a Jefferson, Franklin or for that matter, Marshall.
Lynn Swann? Ha! What a joke. His ONLY claim to fame was that he was a Steeler, was Black and a Republican. He never even held any pulic office before running against Rendell, widely lauded as one of America’s best mayors. I voted against Swann because merely being Black and a Conservative ain’t enough-you gotta have a track record in office. I used that same reasoning when I voted against Obama.
So, no One, the GOP’s got some shit with them that they gotta get clear on. If they’re serious about making in roads into the Black community, they can start by actually engaging it instead of putting up Black puppets.
The Obsidian
I like FB’s post, and it presents a good analysis. I would like to respectfully disagree with the notion that Black women won’t vote for Otis due to his White, blond wife. I think the possibility that Black women won’t vote for him has less to do with his wife choice than his political party choice.
I also think there is an unaddressed issue in O’s first post (excerpted below and abbreviated for convenience):
“The big difference here, of course, is the history of African Americans, barred for most of the country’s history from participating . . . makes politics in the modern era potentially unsettling for lots of Whites.”
“What White folks have got to do, is stop pretending as if this has always been a just and fair, “colorblind†place-that is just not so….and Whites still have to learn that African Americans are human.”
The unaddressed point is that the more recent assertion of Black politicians undeniably come from the Democratic Party side almost uniformly. In this light, it would stand to reason that many Whites, particularly of the opposite party, would be unsettled. Not because of skin color, but because of politics and policies.
That said, I do think O has a point about some Whites being uncomfortable with Black politicians. I don’t think it’s to the same extent. I’d also hazard a guess that those who do are part of the older 55+ demographic.
I find it ironic that the Republicans, the party who freed the slaves and without whose support there would have been no Civil Rights legislation in the 60′s (the Southern Dems fought it) are so disliked by the Black community as a whole. They really lost the PR battle on that one.
Ovid,
I’m very glad you got out, you should live where you feel most comfortable. Trust me, I have no desire to live among those who bear ill will of any kind toward me and mine.
That said, what YOU keep overlooking is the simple fact that from Day One, Blacks were kept from “jockeying” like everyone else, so while I know you and others don’t like it, yea, Affirmative Action, whatever its real flaws, was an attempt to redress all that.
Again: Blacks were kept from participatin for MOST of this country’s history, politically. That is a fact, and it will not be fixed overnight. Nor will every Black person make the best or most noble use of AA. That’s just human nature. You’ll just have to bear with us.
By the way, I’m quite familiar w/th county you mentioned. I myself have and continue to spend considerable time in the Union, Morris and Hudson counties in NJ.
The Obsidian
My gut reaction? If Otis was running for election where I live, I would be more inclined to vote for him simply because his wife is hot.
Any guy married to a hot wife, is a confident man.
On a pure numbers game nationally, Blacks are 12.5% of the population, Whites about 65-70%, and Hispanics around 17.5% or so (depending on levels of illegal immigration).
ENOUGH spoils politics and Whites act as tribal as Blacks do, and screw Blacks and Hispanics out of most of the spoils. Indeed the fight in Atlanta “keep it Black” over “too many White people moving in” presages a larger spoils fight as Government expands.
Bottom line: Suburban Whites are happy to “buy off” Blacks not to riot by payoffs of welfare and patronage as long as Government is limited in scope and does not affect much of Suburban White lives.
The “Green” crap of regulating shower heads, bathtubs, light bulbs, and every thing else, along with ObamaCare, mandates “NO BLACKS” or Hispanics in positions of power over Whites, because they’ll get screwed in spoils politics. We are already seeing this.
No one is impressed any more by charges of racism, not when the Black President attends the Church of Hate Whitey for twenty years, and demonstrates a “Blacks first” mentality on everything. Whites are becoming tribal and that bodes ill for patronage politics. The stakes are simply too high for Whites NOT to be playing the same exact game as Blacks.
As a practical matter Obsidian, much of American history has been White Western populists fighting against corrupt, ethnically based machines in the East. Jackson vs. Bank of the United States. Teddy Roosevelt against Tammany Hall. The Progressives against say, corrupt LA Mayor Frank Shaw of the 1930′s.
Western, rural, populist Whites don’t like Ethnic patronage machines, be they Irish, Italian, or Black. They have never liked them and always fought against them. Because Patronage machines take resources away from the populists (always on the thin edge of making money) and give it to people unlike them.
Try living in California. Our Governor is a joke — Gary Coleman or Mary Carey (the Mariah Carey look-alike pornstar) would have been a better choice and done a better job. Our Senators are Feinstein and Boxer. The leading Dem challengers for Governor are Gavin “threesome” Newsome and Jerry Brown!
Once, California Dems were like Pat Brown. They spent taxes to build things of value: the state water system, freeways, UC, schools, and so on. Taxes were relatively low, land was cheap, the justice system tough but fair, and politics after a dose of Progressive reformism, relatively uncorrupt and open.
Then, Jerry Brown and the Boomers changed everything. They had theirs, so screw everyone else. Taxes supported a vast welfare-patronage spending. Land use was greatly restricted. Taxes were increased in backdoor ways, very corrupt, and corrupt ethnic machines of Asian, Mexican, Black, and other ethnicities sprouted like weeds all over the state. NOTHING was built or maintained. A vast patronage bureaucracy spread all over the State, and middle class jobs were kicked out of the State. California over twenty years (1970-1990) changed from a Middle Class paradise of high wages and cheap land to a wealthy paradise of highly expensive land and cheap wages, with about a third of Mexico moving to California. White flight to Arizona, Utah, Nevada, Idaho, Oregon, Colorado, and Washington dominated this era.
We went from the Beach Boys to MS-13 in the space of twenty years.
I think that’s the issue –> they have very low crossover sex appeal, generally speaking, so they are kind of stuck. And black men are, of course, taking advantage of that.
“So you consider this an HBD blog? I thought you were more of a Game/MRA/anti-PC blogger?”
This is a HBD/Game/MRA/anti-PC/everything else that piques my interest blog. I talk about each subject as it interests me.
Vino,
Thanks for he kudos-but its important to note something here. The GOP’s PR dept didn’t drop the ball-the GOP *intentionally* moved away from Blacks in the 60s and 70s, under the rubric of the “Southern Strategy” in an effort to reach out to disaffected Dixiecrats who opposed Civil Rights legislation.
Moreover, I challenge the notion that only older folk have the lock on racialist, if not out and out racist, thinking and belief-much of the HBDsphere is made up of White guys under the age of 50. Well under.
So, no, I’m not trying to hear that.
Nor am I going to apologize for the fact that I take exception to guys like OneSTDV, who insist that we always have had and always will have a system based on pure “merit”. That’s bullshit and everyone knows it. America has always been a place where if you had the right skin color and enough greenbacks in your wallet, you could make things happen regardless of your real talent or worth.
Again: the GOP’s current configuration is not by accident, that was by design. And since Black folks know this, they’d be insane to vote for a party that just a shade from explicitly acts against its interests. I’m just sayin.
The Obsidian
Obs,
“Moreover, I challenge the notion that only older folk have the lock on racialist, if not out and out racist, thinking and belief-much of the HBDsphere is made up of White guys under the age of 50. Well under.”
Whoa. I didn’t insinuate older folks have the lock on it. I’m just surmising that those who were born in & exposed to an America where segregation was the norm (& were raised by same) are more likely to look at things more racially. That ain’t to say no one else does….
Actually, the GOP’s South issues were older. Hoover, upon election began to give party patronage posts more & more to white businessmen away from many blacks, who were getting some. I think in ’32 he only got like 18% of the Southern Black vote, where I think it’s historically stayed (10-20%). I do think the GOP’s southern strategy had a component that wasn’t racial (though it also undeniably did) – law & order. With the MLK & RFK assassinations & violent protests, one of Nixon’s themes was gool ole’ ‘law & order’ in ’68. It’s odd, because with Geo Wallace, the southern strategy was effectively neutralized…
There’s more, but I guess what I’m saying is that there is great merit to what you say and add that there are other factors at play, for political dynamics usually have multiple considerations on any one issue.
“Nor am I going to apologize . . . America has always been a place where if you had the right skin color and enough greenbacks in your wallet, you could make things happen regardless of your real talent or worth.”
I didn’t think you should apologize or ever suggest it. Many immigrants who came here (Irish, Italians, Poles, etc) were terribly persecuted and suffered discrimination. However, after a generation or so, they were no different. Why? There were still white. So I agree with you on that level. They system has never been purely on merit. However, it is more so than in any other place.
Vino,
My bad, if my comments came off as a swipe at you personally; they weren’t intended to be that way. And you also make some very important points, like the fact that while other ethnic groups like Italians, Poles, Irish and Jews faced considerable prejudice, after a generation or two, they were able to ascend into the upper classes of American society w/o much incident. This was also true of Asians, primarily Chinese and Japanese, though it took longer in both cases due to Jim Crow in the former and internment camps in the latter. Still, they eventually rose up.
This didn’t happen for Blacks because of DECADES of Jim Crow-roughly a century’s worth-and of course, Slavery prior to that, extending back before the country was even founded. I think everyone, on all sides, tends to be far too flippant about just how deeply profound these facts were and are for all of us, not just Black Americans. So much of what HBDers and others talk about, completely ignores these things, as if they never happened and we’re all starting out at the same place in American life.
For example, HBDers make a big deal out of comparing Asians to socalled “NAMs”-that is to say, Black and Hispanic folk in the main. Yet they NEVER, EVER, take Slavery or Jim Crow into account when they do. They instead simply heap any difficulties Blacks have, for example, on their supposed “lesser intelligence” and all that results there from-and make no mistake, the bulk and mass of the HBDsphere makes a huge deal out of “g”.
I just find discussions like that to be greatly flawed, and often reveals the skewed views of those making such claims. Its not something I like much. At all.
The Obsidian
Except for the fact that blacks are a failure in every single country they are in. Did Senegal lose out due to US Jim Crow laws? How about Mozambique? Haiti? The Gambia?
You cannot blame Jim Crow for black failure, when US blacks are the richest blacks in the world, and there is not a single country in the world where blacks are prosperous by their own hand.
Whenever blacks are in the same country as ANY other race (whether white, Mestizo, Arab, or East Indian), blacks always underperform.
Black Jamaicans in Britain underperform. Blacks in Sudan underperform Arabs. Blacks in Brazil underperform. If there was even one exception to this, you would have a leg to stand on, but there isn’t,
So no, HBD trumps the supposed US Jim Crow disadvantage.
In other words, to say Jim Crow is the reason for black failure worldwide, is exactly the same thing as the ‘Fat Acceptance’ movement saying that misogyny and the patriarchal media is the reason that men don’t get erections when a fat woman does a lapdance for them.
The same thing.
Glug,
Please, spare me the hot balloon rhetoric. I never said anything about Africa or anywhere else where Black folk are, I was speaking about America where African Americans are regarded as truly unique. You said as much above in your own statements.
So let’s attempt to stay on point.
What I am saying is that unless one takes into account the unique treatment of African Americans, any attempt to use HBD measures will always be in some dispute. Please note that I don’t say the HBD is baseless-only that the way its currently presented is skewed, if not out and out flawed.
Anyway, as you rightly point out, African Americans are per capita among if not the richest African-folks in the world, and I would say that’s at least in part due to their own agency. Just think what that would be like if they had beginnings akin to the Italians, Germans, Irish or Jews.
I’m just sayin.
The Obsidian
Obsidian,
If there was one significant place anywhere in the world where blacks were doing well relative to America, you could say that America’s history somehow holds blacks back.
But there is not such a place, so that claim just does not hold water.
The North did not have Jim Crow for over 100 years, and has had affirmative action and other programs for 40 years. Yet, Detroit, Chicago, the Bronx, etc. are just as rotten as any place in the South.
That says it all.
Glug,
Actually JC did indeed exist in the Northern cities, and as MLK learned himself, when he went to Chitown, the North was hardly racism-free.
Again, African Americans are considered the most successful among Black folks in the world. So I really don’t think it serves any good purpose to toss in Mozambique or Haiti into the discussion.
Bottomline: the HBD focus of some is flawed, because they cannot take into account the unique history wrt African Americans.
Now-do you have anything substantive to offer about Game?
The Obsidian
Apologies for the delay, Obsidian, but things have been hectic where I am lately.
“First off, Politics in America has ALWAYS been a tribal spoils game-the Irish, Italians and Jews to name a few, always jockeyed for power and influence in the big cities in one way or another.”
True, but what’s different now is that politicians no longer bother to help the people they supposedly represent. The big political machines of the late 19th century like Tammany Hall were run by sons-of-bitches, but they actually did aid the immigrant groups that they patronized. Today’s pols pay lip service at most to this concept.
“What is different is that, when it really matters-big mayoralties like NYC, US Senate and key Congress seats, Governorships and of course the Presidency itself-Black folks are beginning to assert themselves. And like any other ethnic or “tribal†group, they play spoils politics, too.
The big difference here, of course, is the history of African Americans, barred for most of the country’s history from participating in the great franchise. That, along w/the vastly different appearance of Black folks, makes politics in the modern era potentially unsettling for lots of Whites.”
The participation of blacks in the political system doesn’t bother me – the problem is that like the other politicians, so many of the current black politicians are just looking to screw over the people, black and otherwise – see folks like Charlie Rangel and William Jefferson. The example of Paterson not helping Thompson in my post is a prime example of this – by allowing Bloomberg to all but turn NYC into his own personal fiefdom, Paterson isn’t helping blacks or New Yorkers, period.
“What White folks have got to do, is stop pretending as if this has always been a just and fair, “colorblind†place-that is just not so. True, America has shown a capacity for reforming itself in ways that is unparalleled in history anywhere-but old habits die hard, and memories are long. It may not be fair, but it is human nature, and Whites still have to learn that African Americans are human.”
Although I think your language is a bit harsh (whites have to learn that blacks are human? Really?), I agree with the basic thrust of your argument.
“As for Jennings, I am not entirely sure that he wouldn’t garner votes from Black Women simply because he was married to a White Woman; I think merely being a Republican is more than enough to turn away most Black voters in our time-and rightly so, because the GOP has done NOTHING to appeal to them at all. ”
I agree that the GOP’s inability to appeal to blacks is the primary reason why Otis won’t win, but don’t underestimate the power of jealousy when it comes to how women vote. From my personal observation, women of all races and backgrounds really don’t like it when their men canoodle with honeys from other groups. White women hate it when white guys date/marry Asian women and foreign white women, and black women hate it when black guys go for white chicks. The International Marriage Broker Regulation Act was a political manifestation of white women’s jealousy – feminists claiming that foreign women need special protection from American men despite the fact that Am Men/For Women marriages are more stable and less likely to end in divorce then Am Men/Am Women ones. Given that all women generally vote in herds (something like 70 percent of women voted for Obama last year), it wouldn’t surprise me if Otis gets fewer black votes then the Republican mayoral candidate did four years ago because of his choice in women.
“They don’t campaign where Black folk live, don’t engage on the issues important to them, etc. In fact, the GOP has done its Black members a diservice because it basically hangs them out to dry when it comes to making the case to Black folks. It all comes off as windowdressing of the worst kind, and smacks of the same kinds of dog and pony show that other Black Conservatives, like Thomas Sowell and others, put on for the GOP-they are largely there to assuage White sensibilities, in this case, Conservative ones. That’s cool, but we need to call a spade a spade.
So yea, the GOP running Jennings is kinda weak, but it is because they are trying to get over on the cheap, by merely putting a Black face up to run for an office, instead of doing the grunt work of actually changing minds and winning hearts among Black voters.”
Agreed. The GOP strategy for winning black votes is basically Cargo Cult thinking – they see blacks voting for black Democrats and think “Huh, if we just run some blacks, we’ll win too!” It hasn’t worked so far and it never will.
“As for your stating that you consider yourself to be a HBD blogger, I have to ask, what are your views in this regard? Do they comport with or diverge from, say, OneSTDV, who is close to you in age and is a White Male like you?”
OneSTDV is close to me in age? News to me.
Anyway, I view HBD as a sensible, factual, and scientific way of explaining many of the differences between races and peoples. My views are aligned somewhat with OneSTDV’s, but I diverge from Steveospheric conventional wisdom on a couple of points.
My biggest disagreement with them is on the importance of IQ. All of the relevant tests show that blacks have a lower mean IQ then whites (who in turn have a lower mean IQ then East Asians). To which I ask the question – is IQ as important as the quantbloggers make it out to be? No. If it was, the Steve Sailers and Razib Khans of the world would be running the show instead of writing blogs. If IQ was so important, it would be China or Japan, not the U.S. or any European nation, that would be the dominant civilization. If a high IQ is so desirable, why can’t many nerds get laid? A high IQ is necessary for many things, such as scientific and mathematical aptitude, but it’s not the end-all be-all of human existence.
Additionally, I also dispute the extent of genes in forming a person’s personality and character. Genes have a not-negligible role in how we think and act, but they aren’t the sole determinant. People are, in my opinion, not blank slates as the leftists claim, but nor are we perfect puppets of our genetic material – we’re between those two extremes.
Take game, for instance. Under strict HBD biological determinism, game would be an impossibility – and yet, we have documented evidence that it works and can work for any man. He won’t necessarily become the King of All Players, but he can improve his prospects. Conversely, we can’t all become big-shot movers or shakers, but we can still succeed in our personal lives provided we take the necessary steps to do so.
“I myself have a very mixed bag of feelings wrt HBD, because I feel most of it is wielded by its loudest cheerleaders as a sort of “safe, respectable way†to keep dem Darkies in their place.”
HBD folks argue that the reason that blacks in the U.S. are behind every other racial group is solely because of genetics. However, as you’ve stated, Af-Ams are more successful than any other African-descended people on earth. Furthermore, if black crime and economic underperformance is solely the product of IQ, as the HBD crowd claims, why are these things worse now then they were fifty years ago? Answer – blacks have been hit by a series of calamities (welfare, outsourcing of manufacturing jobs, the devastation of the blue-collar trades, the War on Drugs, etc.) that have caused these things. And, as you indirectly remarked in your Wire commentary a couple weeks back, and I elaborated on, working-class whites are suffering from the EXACT SAME PROBLEMS that blacks are. HBD explains many things, but it doesn’t explain everything – there are other factors that need to be taken into account. HBD is not a substitute for a complete worldview, any more than a bottle of steak sauce is a substitute for an actual steak.
Finally, HBD bloggers make a big deal about black shortcomings (like the IQ thing), but they generally don’t talk about the things that blacks do better than whites. A mainstream example is the medically documented fact that blacks are genetically resistant to malaria (the side effect of which is increased susceptability to sickle cell anemia). Another example – I’ve observed that black guys are naturally better with women then white guys, and I believe that this is part genetic. You won’t hear an HBD blogger say these things, for whatever reason. If they would stop talking about black shortcomings so much and bring up stuff like this, I imagine guys like yourself wouldn’t be so apprehensive about HBD.
“And to add insult to injury, my very presence puts to bed the lie many things he advocates.”
And that’s why I don’t believe HBD has all the answers – it doesn’t offer enough wiggle room for free will.
I thank you for your comments, Obsidian, and I also appreciate that you read and comment on my blog. You’re one of the Roissy regulars that I respect the most, because of your unique, positive approach to game and your ability to reason with and help people. Get that blog up – it can do nothing but good.
Just checked out Otis Jennings’ campaign website. Looks like he’s from the Bronx originally, so he must be OK.
If affirmative action is “redress,” then why are Hispanics included?
Many of whom pass for White and experience far less discrimination (now and historically) than Asians?
BTW, Chinese were banned from immigration here for ~60 years and Japanese were thrown in internment camps for several years during WWII. That never happened to Blacks. So, why are they excluded? Where’s their “redress?”
Exactly, as “bad” as Blacks have done here at times, they’ve still done faarrrrr better than under Black leadership at home in Africa.
Fact is, Whites have served as benefactors, not oppressors, to Blacks.
You can’t compare their socieconomic performance to Whites (who have different genes & memes), but must compare them to their original baseline in Africa. For which they always jump up when leeching off White/Asian/other countries.
I know. It is not just whites that outperform when they are in the same country as blacks, but Mestizos (Brazil), Arabs (North Africa), Indians (Kenya, Guyana, Trinidad and Tobago), etc. all quickly outperform blacks when in the same country as blacks.
Even in Mauritius and Madagascar, blacks are at the bottom. It scarcely matters even what race the other race is.
How can this be due to Jim Crow. If there was ONE exception to the pattern of black failure, Obsidian would have a leg to stand on, but there isn’t, so he doesn’t.
There is not ONE exception.
And yes, America is the only country where non-black people voted in a black President, and where a black woman can become a self-made billionaire.
Glug, Byrdeye,
You know what, fuck it:
Let’s say that both of you are 100% correct on all fronts. There. Now:
WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH GAME?!?
I mean, does knowing that the two of you are 100% correct on Blck folk help either one of you actually get anywhere w/the ladies? Hmm? Does it?
What about the rest of the fellas here-does it help them? Hmm? Does it?
See, that’s what I mean, and that’s what others mean about SocialCons, HBDers and so on-even if they’re right, they LOSE, because at the end of the day, the stuff they care about means precious little to anyone BUT themselves.
Instead of alienating guys like me, who actually gives a damn about White guys getting laid, you should be thanking me for taking the time out to give a fuck and share what I’ve actually known to work in the field and in life. But no, you’re too busy talkin about dumb shit that don’t mean anything to anybody at the end of the day.
Come on fellas, we can do better than that.
O
WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH GAME?!?
Directly, not much.
But indirectly, a lot :
1) Blacks vote left-wing at 90-96% levels. No matter what, they will vote for a Democrat, refusing to consider if the candidate is moderate or extreme.
2) This gives feminists power, which they use to pollute the media and court system against men.
3) This also expands the welfare state
So yes, blacks and their failed-state voting habits is the biggest source of Democrat power = feminist power.
Hence, a black MALE voting Democrat is much like a Jew supporting the Nazi party.
You need to do more upbraiding of other black men for creating the cause of their own destruction. This is where you can help the cause against feminism.
Instead of alienating guys like me, who actually gives a damn about White guys getting laid, you should be thanking me for taking the time out to give a fuck and share what I’ve actually known to work in the field and in life.
Sorry, again, I don’t mean for you to take any of the macro-level discussion about Blacks personally. Obviously, it does not really apply to you since you do not fit the general behavioral patterns of the Blacks we are talking about. So NO, you shouldn’t personally have to take the heat for all these leeches.
And I certainly hope we haven’t alienated you, because I do enjoy most of your contributions here (particularly your astrological analyses) and hope to continue dialogue with you.
Glug,
There is no way in hell that I, or any othr Right-leaning Black is gonna change, in significant numbers that actually make a difference, Black voting patterns and support for the Dems to damn near 100% levels. Just not gonna happen. I don’t have the public policy wonk’s ears, nor do I have the means to be effective on a mass media scale. The best I can do, is attempt to change hearts and minds one at a time, and that is tedious and time-consuming. It may work, but the facts are the facts.
Similarly, you, nor Byrdeye, nor any of the other “cons” in the room don’t have a pot to piss in and a window to throw it out of, when it comes to “macro” issues. None of you can directly influence public policy, and even your votes are in a sense wasted, since the GOP doesn’t really do anything to advance issues that are important to you and most Men here.
So, the “macro” shit, fughet ’bout it. NOT. GONNA. HAPPEN.
But what you, I and everyone else here CAN do, is learn how to improve ourselves, so that if nothing else, we can have some measure of happiness and enjoyment in our lives. One way-not the only way, maybe not even the best way-is through GAME. It ain’t perfect and can’t give all the answers. But it’s the best thing we got, and to be honest, that’s both good and bad.
So, I would really like to see us focus our efforts on things that can actually make a difference in our individual lives. Talking loud and saying nothing about all kinds of “macro” crap doesn’t do Jack for the bulk and mass of us, especially guys like you, with all due respect.
O
Well, that’s my point earlier – democracies ultimately fail because they simply start to get controlled by the fastest breeders (and thus largest voting blocks) – who also tend to be the dumbest and leasts scrupulous leeches.
I am Libertarian, not GOP, btw…which actually gives me even less influence than you think, lol.
Micro Game is merely a short-term band-aid though. Had our dads fought the Macro Game too, we wouldn’t have been left with nothing like we are now. Similarly, if we don’t lift a finger to stop the freefall…the next generation of men will suffer the most. That is why Macro Game is important too – for a minimal betterment of our lives, and a greater impact on the future..
Let’s put it this ways, unless we want the US to end up like a Brazilian favela or Africa, we need to STOP PROMOTING BLACK MEMES & GENES IN THIS COUNTRY!
Further Africanizing (liberalizing) this country will only lead to further African results. Rampant overbreeding, poverty, lower IQs, higher violence, mass corruption & chaos, etc etc.
See post-White-ruled Zimbabwe. Or for that matter, ANY other Black-controlled region (see any ghetto near you!).
“But what you, I and everyone else here CAN do, is learn how to improve ourselves, so that if nothing else, we can have some measure of happiness and enjoyment in our lives. One way-not the only way, maybe not even the best way-is through GAME. It ain’t perfect and can’t give all the answers. But it’s the best thing we got, and to be honest, that’s both good and bad.”
So why did my advocating the study of history sound so laughably bad when it could easily constitute self-improvement? If game might “not be the best way” and “can’t give all the answers”, why did you jeer at an alternative method?
So why did my advocating the study of history sound so laughably bad when it could easily constitute self-improvement?
Because it reveals your laughable detachment from reality.
Go to the nearest college campus and start getting the kids there interested in a punctilious study of history in order to become conservatives and reject Obama. See how far that gets you.
The only reason you would suggest this is because you haven’t the slightest interest in actually trying to encourage what you advocate from your armchair.
No, the reason I suggest this is because game on its own has been deemed insufficient. “It ain’t perfect and can’t give all the answers. But it’s the best thing we got, and to be honest, that’s both good and bad.†These reservations admitted, is it so impractical to search for ‘self-actualization’ by other means? And do you think it is possible to be a ‘self actualized’ individual without game?
What a pathetic non-sequiter.
No one characterized Game as such.
More and more, it seems you are looking for a scapegoat to avoid having to confront your own inadequacy and failure as social-cons, combined with a deathly fear of having to confront feminists.
It is apparent that BetaCons don’t actually care about results. They just want to sermonize about abstract ideals. While feminists were destroying marriage throught the court system, the BetaCons were blind at best and complicit at worst, and would rather just sermonize.
That is why BetaCons offer nothing of value to the average person.
Obsidian’s comment of the month was comprehensive, and effectively ends the debate (as well as the relevance of all talk/no action BetaCons) permanently.
Then Obsidian has refuted himself since the quote in my last post was from him. That was his ‘mischaracterization’ of game, not mine. Talk about a “non-sequiter”.
Posec,
Let’s cut the bullshit right here, right now-if you have a BETTER system of getting the sexual attraction of a female, nuturing said sexual attraction through a series of steps, consumating said sexual attraction and then extending that into a LTR, brother, I’m right behind ya.
Let’s hear it.
Otherwise, please shutup and sitdown. Game is the best thing we got. Its systematic and it works. Period. No, its not perfect, and individual results will vary. But its the best chance a guy’s got in these days and times of not only getting his dick wet, but actually buiding those traditional families you and so many other SocialCon types drone on about.
So, you were saying…?
O
“Let’s cut the bullshit right here, right now-if you have a BETTER system of getting the sexual attraction of a female”
Whatever preceded game for thousands of years. That worked and prevailed against matriarchy, did it not? Do you think it will never work again? Why? I do not deny that game is efficacious in wooing women but how does that alter the social landscape which mandates its usage in the first place? If you do not concern yourself with macro-policies, that is your preference but others most likely want to discuss larger issues aside from game mechanics. How much more intricate can the study of the latter be that it merits continuous coverage?
worked and prevailed against matriarchy, did it not?
That was before feminists/misandrists found that they could bypass the voting public and change laws in secret. SocialCons are culpable in this for being too blind to notice what was being done (at best), and complicit in it (at worst).
that is your preference but others most likely want to discuss larger issues aside from game mechanics.
Then the first step BetaCons have to take is introspection. Study Obsidian’s comment of the month in profound and punctilious detail. It explains why SocialCons have a lot of work and painful self-examination to do before you can step out of the shadow of your own failures, and are anywhere near having anything useful to contribute.
At the moment, social cons (except for Sailer) are an utterly empty, failed, and pitiable non-entity, that can’t get anyone to listen to them. You have still posted no realistic solutions to repair the disaster that SocialCon negligence, dimwittedness, and tacit complicity has created.
Again, if the laws were changed under the cover of darkness, where even insiders had little awareness of the proceedings, how could anyone outside from the cabal be complicit in the formulation of misandrist laws? Would you not share some of the blame yourself since you too failed to be vigilant enough to detect the shadowy machinations? Why place the onus on anyone not involved in the laws’ amendment?
“It explains why SocialCons have a lot of work and painful self-examination to do before you can step out of the shadow of your own failures”
I personally never supported feminism so why do I need to engage in meditation on my purported failures?
As has been explained to you before (but you chose to ignore it because it blows your pathetic excuses), socialcons are VERY aware of what happens in the judiciary regarding SCOTUS justice views on abortion, etc. That makes your failure to block misandry pathetic.
Why place the onus on anyone not involved in the laws’ amendment?
Then what good is a so-called political faction? Again, socialcons failed to do their job. Why do you deserve to be listened to, when you have proven to be totally useless to the average man?
All you can do is whine about your helplessness, and offer no solutions.
That is not leadership. That is not even an ideology. It demonstrates the total nothingness that socialcons have become.
Read Obsidian’s comment, in profound and punctilious detail, and address EACH POINT in that. If you can’t do that, then leave this blog, for you have nothing of value/interest to contribute.
“socialcons are VERY aware of what happens in the judiciary regarding SCOTUS justice views on abortion, etc. That makes your failure to block misandry pathetic.”
I didn’t know these misandrist laws, that you insist were secretly concocted, were enacted by the Supreme Court in plain sight for all to see. Which is it? Can you name the socon pundits who gleefully urged this on or were willfully blind? What articles did you read by them that said “yeah, we knew this was coming down the pike but we deliberately ignored it”. And how come Doug1 did nothing to stop this since he was an insider and had to have known that something was amiss? Does he get a free pass by you and why?
“Read Obsidian’s comment, in profound and punctilious detail, and address EACH POINT in that. If you can’t do that, then leave this blog, for you have nothing of value/interest to contribute.”
I will since you have taken such a liking to my phrase. Telling me to leave for contributing nothing of consequence is rich coming from one who is waxing redundant.
I didn’t get far in my perusal of Obsidian’s comment before I came upon this:
“What seems clear to me is that the SocialCons have clearly lost in their efforts to bend WC in their way, and it would seem to me a much better use of energy for them to examine where, how and why they’ve failed so abyssmally [sic], and so repeatedly, over the past few decades”
Now this struck a chord and seemed so very familiar to me…Ah, I know….it sounds like my call to a “profound and punctilious study of history”! For these are the kinds of questions I seek to ask–namely, where did we (all conservatives, not socons only) go wrong? All of the sudden I do not seem so laughably out of it.
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