In the past month, my readership has expanded to over ten times the amount that it was in July. In that time, the comment sections of my posts have also exploded. I’ve got a great group of commenters who’ve always got something interesting to say, so I’ve decided to honor the best of them with a monthly post. So, here are the smartest, snappiest, and strangest In Mala Fide comments for the month of August.
The August 2009 Comment of the Month goes to Obsidian for his no-nonsense breakdown of the game vs. social conservative debate:
Personally, I find the entire “debate†between the Game community and the socalled SocialCons to be greatly flawed.
Like TFH has said, and I agree, it seems clear to me that the SCs have little if any understanding of Game in an overall sense, nor of any of its fundaments or undergirding principles. This alone makes it very hard to have any form of enlightened discussion, let alone debate, for simple lack of proper information to begin with, regardless as to whether one takes a pro or con position wrt Game. As it so often happens though, it is human nature to rail the loudest and longest against things one has litte if any information, accurate or no, about (note a recent commenter’s disdain at my posting astrological renderings of the Fiore-Jenkins/Sodini tragedies; five’l get you ten said commenter knows almost next to nothing about astrology!).
The second flaw I see in the Game-SocialCon Debate is in the idea that Game must somehow address, even “save†Western Civ. I don’t think it’s Game’s or the PUA’s job or place to be Western Civ’s saviors. What seems clear to me is that the SocialCons have clearly lost in their efforts to bend WC in their way, and it would seem to me a much better use of energy for them to examine where, how and why they’ve failed so abyssmally, and so repeatedly, over the past few decades, instead of basically demanding that something they’ve already declared was flawed to begin with-Game-do the dirty work and heavy lifting of “saving†Western Civ that they couldn’t do themselves.
The simple bottomline is, that in a free democratic society where interpersonal relations is based on the principle of freedom of association, Game, works. It is a complex of ideas, behaviors and concepts designed to win the sexual attraction of a Woman, or indeed, a number of Women. It is rooted in Evolutionary Psychology and Biology, has been repeatedly field tested, and has wide application accross sociometric groups and cultures.
Having said that however, it is entirely up to the individual Man in question as to how he wishes to use Game-does he wish to live the life of a Libertine? Does he wish to get a girlfriend? A wife? Does he wish to put that sexual spark but into his relationship or marriage? All of these options and more, are available to the Man w/Game.And THAT, to me, is Game’s true strength, for it gives a Man OPTIONS. For so much of human history, and certainly this is the case for the modern era, the vast majority of Men were at the mercy of the Fates when it came to winning the affections of a young maiden. All of the nice platitudes and pretty lies so many young Men were sold, have proven over and over not to work for the aggregate Male. Dating and mating, already a deeply murky matter for the vast majority of young Men, was essentially a hit and miss endeavor, filled with many a lonely night, and scores of rejections.
Game changes all that. It gives Men the tools that have been proven to work on Women, and it has been seen and proven that even a minute amount of understanding and effort-effort is key-can a Man turnaround his situation literally overnight. I myself have seen this. Many here can attest to the same thing in their own lives.
As a practitioner of Game-both natural and assisted, if you will-it is a powerful feeling to know that if I want, I can have as many Women as I can handle-that I’ll never go lacking for female company if that’s what I desire; that the term “involuntary celibacy†would never apply to me.
It occurs to me that if the SocialCons are truly interested in saving Western Civ, they might consider addressing themselves to areas of life that are less about trading in abstract ideas and tilting at ideological windmills and fighting lost causes in some misguided attempt at principled martyrdom, and instead focus their efforts “on the groundâ€-there are thousands of young White Conservative Males who are not getting laid, let alone facing the prospect of living a good chunk of their lives alone because not only do they live in a greatly changed social landscape their dads and grandads wouldn’t recognize, but they also have no guides or mentors to help them on the path to true happiness-which, if you’re a Man, means being between a Woman’s thighs. If the SocialCons really want to make a difference, they can start by helping its next generation get Game.
The Obsidian: always long, always strong, always worth reading. Well done, and get cracking on that blog, dude!
Honorable Mentions go to the following:
Lupo wins the Defending the Undefendable Award for his advocacy of lechery and hybrid vigor:
Well, I don’t know why you read my stuff then: I am just as bad -au pairs (the last one was Austrian) and everything. I just see no reason to write essays about it. It’s what men do when we can. We like em young and hot. Innocent would be nice too, but that doesn’t exist any more unless you’re a pedophile. Hence crap like what Roissy writes.
I think you’re somehow missing on how bad modern women are. The entire concept of virtue is gone, forever; kaput finito, goneski. There are isolated pockets of it in other cultures, but whatever is touched by America is done. Sure, American men are pathetic little twits, but the women are fever swamps of immorality.
This girl I know … you may have met her once too, though she was pretty young then. Beautiful, intelligent, two masters degrees, ambitious, excellent job probably makes more money than I do; looks like a Waterhouse painting. I was considering doing horrible things to her, so I went and read her LJ. She wrote, in her LJ, about her transformative experience selling herself for $400 to some sweaty fat nerd on craigslist. She did it as a form of “self improvement.†Some kind of “empowerment†thing to prove she had power over men or something. Even I was pretty horrified. I saw her in a bar recently where I was drinking beer with my Turkish pal. She came up to me, and of course gave me the ole kiss on the cheek, because I’m awesome. My Turk pal had just got done telling me he’d love to stay in America and get rich, but he doesn’t want his son to be a pouf. I told him there were worse things that would happen to his kids in America, and one of them just said hello to me. He couldn’t even wrap his brain around the concept.
Now, I can respect a whore who does it out of necessity, or even one who is kind of broken from being molested when she was young. She’s providing a sort of service, and being useful to society within her compass. Someone who would do that to themselves on purpose: that’s really fucked up.
Can you blame Roissy for wanting to cornhole some Russian chick who at least has enough self respect to not sell herself on craigslist for a couple dollars? I don’t blame him.
The next time some miserable old hag gives you guff about going for chicks who are young, foreign, or both, remember those words.
Chuck wins the Pimp Slap Award for spelling out the rules women should follow:
Here are the only rules a woman needs to know:
Don’t fuck him on the first date or meeting.
Don’t nag.
Don’t emasculate him.
Don’t neglect the balls.
Wise words.
OneSTDV wins the Harsh Truths Award for reminding us why fatties are second-class citizens:
The fat acceptance movement has got to be one of the funniest identity politics schemes I’ve ever seen. And all these fat biznatches complaining about “discriminationâ€. Well of course your company sticks you on the phone or in the back where no one can see you. Having some fat slob at the front counter is not only offputting from an aesthetic perspective, but it reflects poorly on the company’s image.
The media can shove pictures of overweight slobs with kangaroo pouches in our faces all damn day, but they can’t change human nature.
Coldequation wins the Witty Comeback Award for this comment on Mystery’s trustworthiness:
Sure I’d trust him – to spread human papilloma virus.
Coldequation scores a two-fer, winning the Reading Comprehension Award for missing the point of my “No true woman” post:
This game shitstorm that has afflicted the right-o-sphere lately started with your “roissysphere manifesto.†The reason that people think roissy is about sport-fucking your way through the female population like Don Juan on uppers is that roissy IS about sport-fucking your way through the female population like Don Juan on uppers.
Even Lawrence Auster, the most rigid and dogmatic social con imaginable, is not utterly repulsed by game when it’s packaged properly – roissy’s views on reality combined with a conservative’s goals, and without reference to roissy himself.
This was made on a post in which Roissy wasn’t mentioned once. Always check yo’self fo’ you wreck yo’self.
The Fifth Horseman wins the Ass Kisser Award for flattering my ego:
Rather than admire the ‘Roissysphere’, why not just create the complimentary ‘Ferdisphere’?
Ferdinand has done good work in a very short time, and has attracted a lot of the Roissy regulars, and I am optimistic about the future impact of this blog.
“Ferdisphere”…I like it.
Alkibiades wins the Hating on the Dead Award for this remark about Ted Kennedy:
I’ll paraphrase Pete Rose’s comments about Ty Cobb to state what I think about Ted’s death, “From what I know about Ted Kennedy, he isn’t looking down at us right now.â€
There are some people whose lifeless, rotting corpse can’t be kicked around enough. The late senator from Chappaquiddick is one of them.
Finally, Michelle Therese wins the TMI Award for telling us something we didn’t need to know:
There’s a reason I “do the hover†in public rest rooms ~ I have no idea where those other women have been, let alone with whom… Ugh!!
Erm, thanks.
{ 51 comments… read them below or add one }
Thanks for including me. I’m proud to say I was probably the first person to find your blog (I even commented on your test post).
This is one of my must-read blogs that I check multiple times daily. And that’s saying something because I mostly only visit HBD blogs.
Keep up the good work!
[Oh and in regards to the comment I left about fatties, you should see the kind of looks I get when I say stuff like that in real life.]
I read Obsidian’s comment up to the point where he uses not knowing about astrology as an example. I know everything I _need_ to know about astrology: I konw that it is bunk, for very good and sufficient fundamental principle of reality type reasons, and anybody who claims otherwise is simply not capable of engaging in rational discussion.
The SoCons may feel the same about Game. They may even be correct, in the long run. The specifics of how and why their predictions don’t apply need to be clearly established and clearly communicated if a discussion with them is to be useful. That still might not get anywhere, depending on how emotional the discussion becomes.
The mention of Ted Kennedy in some of the comments reminded me of how I have a lot of difficulty imagining what any supposed afterlife will be like. I remember seeing some excerpts from Mother Teresa’s journals, or whatever they were (her writings, etc.), and she was apparently miserable a lot of the time and couldn’t see or feel God, etc. I think it’s our fate to be in the dark about that sort of thing, on this Earth. I can have respect for (and have a need to view) the physical health of others as being something sacred but, at the same time, view my body or the human body per se, independent of any individual or seat of consciousness, as being a rather appallingly-flawed piece of machinery. That’s more or less the type of feeling that led me to seek God, I guess, personally. I lost all faith in the capacity of the physical body per se to sustain me in an at-all-adequate way (I mean the wisdom of the body or the natural mechanisms by which the body is supposed to work, etc.).
>This was made on a post in which Roissy wasn’t mentioned once. Always check yo’self fo’ you wreck yo’self.
No, he wasn’t mentioned once. He was mentioned twice (if you count including yourself in the “roissysphere” as a mention of roissy).
But I knew the post wasn’t really about roissy, which is why I explained why roissy was relevant:
“This game shitstorm that has afflicted the right-o-sphere lately started with your “roissysphere manifesto.â€
The trad-cons you were responding were responding to roissy and your “roissysphere manifesto”. You didn’t have to directly mention him (you did, twice, but you didn’t have to) for him to be relevant, any more than you have to mention Hitler in a debate about the Holocaust. Mark Richardson most definitely picked up on it from Auster – there’s no doubt that the gamists he referred to were roissy and his followers (eg, you).
Anyway, my main point was not about roissy either – it was that game can be packaged as roissyesque sleaze, or in a palatable, non-roissyesque way for social cons, with a link to Auster as evidence.
Rollory:
You said-
“I read Obsidian’s comment up to the point where he uses not knowing about astrology as an example. I know everything I _need_ to know about astrology: I konw that it is bunk, for very good and sufficient fundamental principle of reality type reasons, and anybody who claims otherwise is simply not capable of engaging in rational discussion.”
O: OK then-I challenge you to a debate on the matter. I say that not only do you know enough about astrology to make the claims you have above, but you also cannot have a rational discussion, pro or con because of this very simple deficiency on your part. In that respect we would agree-your position is akin to the SocialCons wrt Game. Neither of you knows what the heck you’re taking about.
Holla back-I look forward to the exchange.
The Obsidian
Ferdinand,
Thanks so much for giving me the nod for this month! And yup, Inshallah, the blog will be coming along in due course.
O
Game is a manipulation of the female psyche, not an improvement on the female psyche. Where traditional, patriarchal Christianity inculcated a set of values in women that was conducive to a harmonious, male-friendly marriage, modern Game is just a diversion. It’s the difference between what a genuine entrepreneur does in building wealth and what a Wall Street trader does through arcane, shady financial manipulations.
O.K. Go ahead and fix the female psyche and get back to me when you are done – I won’t be holding my breath.
SteveinTX
The success of marriage under traditional, Christian culture versus the success of marriage and long-term non-marital relationships today in our essentially pagan culture is sufficient evidence to prove that Christianity had a highly positive effect on the way that most Western women related to men in the past.
Had to laugh at the ‘didn’t need to know’ award.
Good stuff. I second OneSTDV’s comment.
And OneSTDV, get a RSS reader if you don’t already have one. Then you’ll never miss a post.
Or, alternatively, the non-presence of contraception, anonymous urban living, and rising female incomes ALLOWED traditional Christian marriages to exist.
Most “Christian” women indeed rack up the partners, and view it as their God-given right to dump a man, including or especially their husband, for a hotter, more Alpha guy.
Christianity is not some magic wand or bullet that will fix anything. It’s values can only exist within a society that encourages and enhances it. Most women particularly Christian women believe Jesus wants them to have as much hot, dominated sex with bad boy Alphas as possible. Because they want to. And nothing within culture punishes their desires — not other women, not economic pressures, nothing.
I’d like a return to 1955 as much as anyone else, it is not going to happen and all we can do is “manage the descent into savagery.”
@ Obsidian:
We don’t have to argue against astrology just like we don’t have to argue against you being a space alien from the Andromeda galaxy.
Astrology is a ridiculous “system” that has absolutely no validity. It’s not even worth arguing against. In the words of some great physicist who I don’t feel like looking up: “It’s not even wrong.”
Did you see that coming?
OneSTDV,
Given your sage insights on Hip Hop, I am not surprised in the least that you make such comments about one of the world’s first recognized disciplines. I welcome the chance to debate you on your favorite subject(s), anytime you are ready. Should be delish.
Remember One-I have studied the matter-you, have not.
;)
The Obsidian
While I’m on the point about astrology, the Game/PUA community regards it as “Chick Crack”-things that typically Women are into, such as palm reading, crystals, various forms of spirituality and so on, that PUAs/Gamers use to forge emotional connections in the course of their seductions. The term infers that Women are drawn irresistably to these things, and can be quite a powerful lure the Gamer/PUA can make use of.
While I don’t doubt the utility of such an approach, I do take serious issue w/the framing of astrology as “chick crack” and have found that most PUAs know as much about astrology as SocialCons and 3rd Wave Feminists know about Game, which is to say, beyond the most sensationalist and superficial things, virtually nothing of any consequence. And it is this ignorance, combined w/arrogance, that I find problematic.
Deeply so, in fact.
Indeed, it has been my and several of my colleagues’ direct experience, that a skilled used of astrology can be quite helpful to the Man in his use of Game to acquire the Targets of his choice-from determining the best times to “go on the hunt” to determining which females t avoid, to even assisting him on the inner journey that is an essential part of any successful use of Game. Astrology quickly gets to the heart of the matter in ways that years of psycho-analysis or months of costly Game “bootcamps” simply cannot, w/all due respect.
This is because of astrology’s long and documented track recond along these lines-and, by the way, astrology has been in the seduction business before there was ever any Game to speak of. Nowadays, I and others like me see the systems on the same team-bodies of information there for the taking, to give us all a richer, fuller, more happier life.
There’s more that I could say but I’ll hold here.
Holla back
The Obsidian
Obsidian,
Please summarize how someone can/should learn certain elements of astrology for direct use in Game, particularly for pre-selection of good women vs. bad, and for other Game-related areas where astrology could be useful.
What is the minimum one should learn to get the maximum Game-related upside?
Ferdinand,
While you should strive to create a ‘Ferdisphere’….
You absolutely MUST stop giving so much importance to Larry Auster (an obsolete Auster-alopithecus) and no-names like Todd White. By wishing so hard for an obsolete non-entity like Larry Auster to get it (who does not even allow unmoderated comments on his blog), you appear, well, Beta.
Also, Todd White is a no-name who gets less blog traffic than Novaseeker or Whiskey. Obsidian will surpass Todd White within 28 hours of going live. Todd White has no grasp of Game, and refuses to comprehend what Game is, yet arrogantly claims he knows as much about women as we do.
Yet, you gave Todd White importance by doing a post about how he ‘threw down to gauntlet’ to Roissy.
Todd White wanting to debate Roissy is about as reasonable and self-aware as if Roissy were to demand a debate with First Lady Michelle Obama. It is a joke, and Roissy correctly ignored the ludicrous challenge.
So quit framing the likes of Todd White as if they are an equally legitimate counter-view faction on the subject. And quit acting as if Larry Auster grasping game matters one whit either way, particularly if others on the right, like Allahpundit and Glenn Reynolds, already DO ‘get it’. Focus on reaching out to these people instead.
TFH,
Well, let’s say you want to go out Sarging, and of course, you want the night to result in at least some really solid number closes, if not more.
What I would recommend is you going out on nights when the planets were much more favorable to youer seduction efforts. Women, being ruled by the Moon, are quite influenced by its phases. Ever notice that Women tend to be “looser” during the Full Moon? Well, trust me, its true-in fact, my best seductions were done when the Moon was Full, or at least building towards it.
Then there are planets that relate directly to sex. A Man’s seductions will be much more successful if he goes out on the hunt during the times when these planets align favorably.
For example, my Lady at present-we met when Venus and Mars were at their peak strength and making favorable aspects to each other. Moreover, the Moon was also favorably placed. That wasn’t by accident. I planned our first date that way. We’ve been happy eversince.
There are quite a few ways for a Man to use astrology in his seductions.
The Obsidian
Obsidian,
Ever notice that Women tend to be “looser†during the Full Moon? Well, trust me, its true-in fact, my best seductions were done when the Moon was Full, or at least building towards it.
OK. But what about if the Moon was full during the day, and is now below the horizon at night in North America? i.e. it is a full Moon only in the US daytime, rather than night-time? Half of all full-Moons are like that, of course.
The Moon’s light, and even gravity, would be gone as influences if the Moon is on the other side of the Earth.
The Venus/Mars placement may be infrequent. How often does this happen, as a percentage of days in the Earth year?
If favorable placements of celestial objects only occurs a small percentage of the time, then that would be limiting.
Perhaps when you launch your blog, a running theme can be a calendar of ‘favorable days’ vs. ‘unfavorable days’, and why. You could brand yourself as offering that unique dimension to the Game community.
Some will trash the concept, but some will find such a calendar a useful reference tool. And… if some men use the info you provide as an escalation tool within their Game, in a ‘chick crack’ context, it helped those men too..
“All of the nice platitudes and pretty lies so many young Men were sold, have proven over and over not to work for the aggregate Male”
The pretty lies worked as long as women didn’t have the ability or social permission to search as far or as wide for a man. She had to settle on what/who was nearby.
This is what kept alpha-seeking behavior to a minimum, and ensured that every man had a mate.
I’ve been reading “The World is Flat” by Friedman. One can just as easily extend his thesis to social relationships between men and women and imagine what sort of disasters will happen as the world continues to shrink and become flatter and flatter.
“it is entirely up to the individual Man in question as to how he wishes to use Game-does he wish to live the life of a Libertine? Does he wish to get a girlfriend? A wife? Does he wish to put that sexual spark but into his relationship or marriage? All of these options and more, are available to the Man w/Game.”
I agree, which is why I urge my fellow socialCons to not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Guys have been conditioned to be betas because the beta is the bulwark of society, he is the one and only vessel through which civilization transmits itself. Women don’t want to hang with betas but they had to in the past because of past social restrictions that kept them tied to a beta man once they married him–and they got married early. Now they’ve been unfettered from those restrictions, their alpha-seeking behavior has been unleashed, and the fine upstanding beta man is left wondering where all the bettys went.
“Some kind of “empowerment†thing to prove she had power over men or something. “
She needed proof? She musta slept through middle school. Now the only thing she’s proven is what kind of morals she has and just how stupid she is.
Just so I’m clear, the beta I refer to is a man’s beta, not a female’s beta.
In other words, an average, upstanding joe who isn’t at the top of the social pyramid but instead holds the social pyramid up.
Wapiti,
A flat world in the Friedman sense is better for Beta males, than for feminists.
1) Entitled American women will be forced to come into contact with patriarchal cultures.
2) Beta males will have access to more Asian women to date.
3) If you live in a large US city, surely by now you have noticed a LOT more Chinese/Indian men with good-looking white women, while this was all but nonexistent just 5 years ago.
Since women are bigger beneficiaries of the various artificial structures set up by feminists in America today, a flat world hurts them more than it hurts men.
“3) If you live in a large US city, surely by now you have noticed a LOT more Chinese/Indian men with good-looking white women, while this was all but nonexistent just 5 years ago.”
Gross! Stick with your own race. American Women are anti-white, leftist, and pro-miscegenation by default. Filthy race traitors.
USA = Third World Shit Hole.
Denise,
It is called ‘market forces’ and is entered into between two consenting adults.
White guys have preferred Asian women over white women for a very long time.
“White guys have preferred Asian women over white women for a very long time.”
No, not really.
Horseman: I heard that! I’m still here, ya know! ;)
And actually, without revealing details, Roissy and I have exchanged emails on that topic, so don’t say anything you’ll regret later ;)
@ Obsidian:
“Given your sage insights on Hip Hop”
What did I say that was such a gross misrepresentation of hip-hop? That music was the predominant music I grew up with, so I know it pretty well.
Re: Astrology
Richard Dawkins doesn’t debate creationists because their views are so absurd. I’ll take the same approach.
You’re a smart guy Obs, but that shit is retarded.
EW,
I must respectfully disagree with your assertions above.
First off, Nature says, that when faced with changes on the ground, Animals can do one of two things-Adapt, or Die.
The fact of our time is that the socia and dating landscape has vastly changed for Men, whether they want or like it…or not. Nor are we going back.
This gives Men two choices-either adapt to this new way of doing business, or…”die”.
Personally, I’m all for letting the Woman choose freely whom she wants to be with. I am confident in my abilities to keep a Woman I desire, and if I wasn’t then that’s MY FAULT, not hers. I need to “up my Game”.
I really am concerned about this strain of thinking that basically says all is lost on the love front. You got the keys to the kingdom now. Take advantage of it.
O
OneSTDV,
Replies below:
@ Obsidian:
“Given your sage insights on Hip Hopâ€
OSTDV: What did I say that was such a gross misrepresentation of hip-hop? That music was the predominant music I grew up with, so I know it pretty well.
O: If that was true you would not have made the most silly and ignorant comments on the matter you’ve made on your site and elsewhere. Tell me, how familiar are you w/Common? Mos Def? The Roots? Are they not Hip Hop? If so, why do you not mention them? We can start there.
OSTDV: Re: Astrology
Richard Dawkins doesn’t debate creationists because their views are so absurd. I’ll take the same approach.
O: Oh, you mean the same Dawkins who got pawned by Dinesh D’Souza in a debate on Religion? D’Souza’s taken on all comers from the Atheist camp, and largely came out on top, including his debate against Hitchens at King’s College in NYC. You’re right to ape Dawkins; I would avoid debating folks about things I know next to nothing about, too.
OSTDV: You’re a smart guy Obs, but that shit is retarded.
O: Says the Man who knows not of what he speaks. Last time I quoted Newton; this time I’ll quote Chairman Mao:
No investigation, no right to speak.
Holla when you’re ready for that debate on HBD, One. Looking forward to the exchange.
The Obsidian
TFH,
You make some excellent points, and I too had given some thought on the idea of posting up dates/times when it was best to initiate Seduction Operations. So I will seriously consider that.
Thanks.
O
Obsidian,
Yes, please do. This is an area where others have no way of knowing what is what, but it could be a valuable other bit to add to one’s Game.
You would be the first to introduce this in the community, and this could ‘brand’ yourself easily. A book, etc. could be an opportunity down the line.
Todd White,
I highly doubt Roissy would certify you as knowing how Game works.
You have yet to demonstrate that, as per wide consensus.
Horseman: I can’t speak for you, but I know that for me personally, chatting with you is always an intellectually enriching experience. You always having such rich, penetrating insights about life, and you always engage me on the merits of my argument. I really appreciate you, man.
Funny thing is, consider how SDTV thinks about fat chicks with such revulsion and imagine it as a woman talking about beta males and you’ll start to realize why the Beta Revolution won’t work. The Beta Revolution is to women what the Fat Acceptance is to men…trying to force people to go against their natures and what they’re attracted to.
Women are revulsed by beta males to the same degree men are revulsed by fat women.
Except that the Beta revolution is not about women liking them. The Beta revolution will be a general strike, and isolated but frequent instances of violence.
The Beta revolution is more of a scorched earth nature.
Todd,
Did you read those two other blogs I directed you towards? Those take the ‘vulgarity’ and ‘hedonism’ out of the concept of Game, and have a more self-improvement/collaborative tone to them.
http://www.approachanxiety.com
http://www.askjdog.com
They are just as much a part of the community as the Roissy zone is. But with a very different flavor.
Did you read them?
I see your point, but Beta man have a lot more to offer than fat women (which is basically nothing).
Actually One, Beta Males and Fat Women are in the same boat-whereas in the past, both got “default” mates due to the way the mating game was structured, in today’s times it’s a lot different. Simply put, many White guys claim to go without before hooking up w/a fat Woman (though stats on this don’t jibe w/the trash talk), while Women clearly don’t need the Beta provider Male. So yup, in theory at least, they’re both losers.
O
Not true, basically White betas have been left standing in the Game of sexual musical chairs by Black men here…and as a result basically have to choose between White leftovers, masturbation, ugly robotic Asian maids or “going Sodini.”
From Sodini’s blog (about race,dating & his brother Michael):
Amerika has chosen The Black Man. Good! In light of this I got ideas outside of Obama’s plans for the economy and such. Here it is: Every black man should get a young white girl hoe to hone up on. Kinda a reverse indentured servitude thing. Long ago, many a older white male landowner had a young Negro wench girl for his desires. Bout’ time tables are turned on that shit. Besides, dem young white hoez dig da bruthrs! LOL. More so than they dig the white dudes! Every daddy know when he sends his little girl to college, she be bangin a bruthr real good. I saw it. “Not my little girlâ€, daddy says! (Yeah right!!) Black dudes have thier choice of best white hoez. You do the math, there are enough young white so all the brothers can each have one for 3 or 6 months or so. – George Sodini
On the same thought, things occured to me today. Michael NEVER had an attractive girlfriend. Debbie, Barb, Kim, … then I lost track. Not to say I had any (execpt Pam, who was about a 7.25). He married a Chinese-descent, petite woman with no body, no ass, no chest and no personality. She never laughs or smiles, neither does he. But she is highly intelligent and an excellent cook. I can testify to that! She home bakes her own DELICIOUS wheat bread! But who cares about that type of small bull crap? Mike even mentioned when we were visiting dad that “she’s not very attractive”.
Basically, Asian women are a consolation prize due to a paucity of choices…narrowly beating out masturbation and mass murder. That’s why you see few Black men shooting for Asian women – because they have all the choices and prefer Barbies like Heidi Klum.
Actually, a beta nerd male is equivalent to a beta nerd chick. Both of those are steps above plain obese folks, in terms of mate value (no offense to them).
What do Beta men have to offer? Women can provide for themselves. So what is it? That they have nicer personalities and are more loyal than alphas? Fat chicks say the same thing about themselves in comparison to hot chicks: “We have nicer personalities and are more loyal, it’s what’s inside that counts!”
No, a beta male nerd is not equivalent to beta nerd chick because men and women are attracted to different things. If a guy is good looking but is a beta nerd, he is treated worse than a fat alpha. If a guy is fat but a total alpha, he will do better with women than a skinny beta nerd. That’s because betaness is on the bottom of the female attraction social totem pole, even below fatness. If a guy on the other hand has to choose between a skinny beta nerd chick and a fat chick with all the inner qualities he likes, he will choose the skinny beta nerd chick because he is much more visually oriented than women are.
So bottom of total pole for women is beta male. Bottom of totem pole for men is fat chick. They are equivalent. So if you understand OSTDV’s quote about fat chicks, you can now understand women’s attitudes toward beta males and have a little more empathy for their refusal to fuck one.
Joe,
Excellently well put!
The Obsidian
Bottom of the totem pole is ‘ugly chick’. Fat chicks are a subset of ugly chicks, because some thin chicks can be ugly too.
Fair enough TFH. My overall point stands tho because I think an obese chick with a pretty face would still do worse than an ugly chick with a rocking body. So even within the ugly category, i think fat (not just chubby) is the lowest of the subsets.
I think another lesson we have to learn from OneSTDV’s post is that we have to get rid of the myth that women who won’t fuck betas are turning down nice guys for jerks. Because as shown by how they treat fat women, betas are not nice. They can be as mean-spirited and jerkish as anyone else, although mostly passive-aggressively. They are not nice in general, only nice to people they find attractive and want to fuck. Alpha jerks aren’t crazy abour fatties either, but they’re jerks across the board to everyone. If a chick has to choose between a fake nice guy whose really a secret jerk and an upfront and honest jerk who wears it upfront, she’s going to choose the honest jerk. At least she’s getting what is advertised with him instead of a lie.
It’s not a nice guy vs. jerks dilemma, it’s a secret, passive-aggressive jerk vs. open, honest, dominant jerk dilemma.
As a recovering nice guy/beta myself, I agree with this. Robert Glover makes the same point in his book No More Mr. Nice Guy: that “nice guys” are often anything but nice; we can be quite selfish and go through life with this barely-concealed simmering bitterness over the fact that society doesn’t just hand us what we want on a silver platter. Glover even makes it clear that in using the term “nice guys,” he’s not referring to any actual positive qualities of the archetype, but merely to how such guys see themselves. And that’s what’s most significant: we’re “nice guys” because we THINK we are. I would add, though I don’t think Glover mentions this, that we think we’re “nice” just because we feel put upon by more socially dominant guys: in other words, being victims makes us nice.
I look back on all the times I shunned and excluded people, insulted people, teased women mercilessly (negging is actually something that comes naturally to me, but I’ve never known how to take it to the next level, how to transition and start building comfort, so I wind up just continuing to tease the girl until she starts feeling genuinely insulted) to the point of getting them angry at me, drove home in rage thinking “to hell with her!” afer some social event where some girl I liked didn’t act too interested in talking to me, and I can’t believe I tend to think of myself as a “nice guy.”
The one thing to be said in defense of “nice guys” is that many of us were raised to think that being passive-aggressive was supposed to work, so at least for a time we didn’t know any better. Still, there comes a point where you have to step back, look at the fact that what you’re doing doesn’t work, and be willing to try something else.
This is true, but a lot of “nice guys” really are nice and they don’t do any better with women than the guys who just think they are nice.
Fair enough. I speak from my own experience and don’t want to impugn any guys who truly are nice by imputing my own faults to them.
The key is not to be a supplicating pushover. That does not require being ‘not nice’ as in a rude or boorish way.
Among fictional characters, James Bond, Fonzie, Captain Kirk, etc. are polite and suave, but very Alpha, because you would never see them acting in an appeasing/supplicating way with a woman or anyone else.
It is not ‘nice’ vs. ‘jerk’, but rather ‘needy pushover’ vs. ‘dominant and in charge’. One can be dominant and thuggist, or dominant and super smooth. The ‘dominant’ part is key.